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Remos Gx crash with death


Farmer Steve

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Those aren't the type of pictures we all want to see of our aircraft. Just kind of takes the wind out of my sails. We all want to learn from this so someone else will not be injured or loose their life. The report indicates that the pilot reported a problem with the elevator and also indicates that there was a BRS installed. Although it won't bring the deceased pilot back, hopefully the investigation will determine if there was a malfunction of the control surfaces and if there was or was not an attempt to deploy the BRS.

 

 

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There are times to pull the red handle and times to not. Neither is the time to figure out which it is. How many of us, before each flight, decide what our personal rules are for BRS or not. Mental preparation, like physical preparation, is a very important part of safe flight.

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My friend with a CTLS and I often discuss our personal limits for pulling the chute. Recently, there have been crashes of LSA in our area where one would think that a pilot would successfully land but this didn't happen. The one crash I remember the most was a Tecnam going down in a soybean field. All who looked at the situation agreed that this would have resulted in a succesful forced landing spot. The results showed otherwise. The vegitation in the field caught the landing gear which forced the gear back into the cabin where it punctured the pilot's lungs. He died after arriving at the hospital. Probably a freak accident but the facts remain. Another recent accident was in Ohio where the pilot and his passenger walked away. A CTLS had engine failure and the pilot was over 5000' AGL with lots of time to pick a spot. He chose an open grass field. Upon landing, he discovered that there was an 8' ditch in his landing path that was not apparent from the air. The plane was a total loss. The engine was torn off, windshield popped out, each wing damaged, stabilizer broken and landing gear ripped off. A discussion I had with a composite repair tech indicates that the damage resulting from chute deployment on a CT can be repaired. My personal plan is to pull the chute if I'm not going to be landing on a hard packed surface.

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I am in complete agreement Dick.

 

Unless I can find a hard packed surface (read: airfield) within 1.5nm per 1k' of altitude of my position, then I plan to go thru my 'chute deployment checklist and "pull the little red handle".

 

I've been following BRS 'chute deployment discussions and accident reviews on the CIRRUS forum (www.cirruspilots.org) since before I bought my first CIRRUS in '03. Bottom line is a lot of pilots have died needlessly trying to land their planes while ignoring the 'chute. I am not aware of anyone who has walked away from a deployment wishing they hadn't pulled the handle.

 

Remember, we don't practice off field landings. We practice off field approaches with engine ON. The real thing isn't likely to be what you think it'll be.

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I’ve already made up my mind. If it’s a control issue I’m pulling the chute. These little birds are a challenge to land when everything is working fine. A lot better pilots than me have died trying to salvage the plane.

 

I live in Duluth where the Cirrus is mfg. I remember when the test pilot for Cirrus died trying to land an SR20 with a jammed aileron. He could have made it on the grass but opted to go for the runway to save the plane.

 

rookie

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Al, I agree completely with your first paragraph but we'll never know if "he could have made it on the grass". The pilot must have been very good to get the plane down and attempt a landing with a locked up aileron and there is a chance he may have been able to land it if he hadn't made the decision to get to the runway. If the pilot hadn't put his eqo above his survival and he instead had opted to pull the 'chute, there is a very high probability that he would have been around to see what caused his aileron to lockup.

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I have flown the GX and alway, always, always checked the folding wing linkage before fllight but still felt I should have checked it one more time. The folding feature is really a unique and useful feaure of the Remos but it is also a feature that has brought down more than one of these aircraft due to the operator's failure to check this before flying. It will be sad if the reason for this fatality was not due to equipment faiure but was due to the pilot's failure to check for proper location of the sleeve and pin.

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http://us4.campaign-...4&e=78f5fdb2ba. Here is a probable cause of the incident. Folding wings add complexity to a LSA.

I had not heard that a probable cause of the accident was because it had folding wings. Is that on the NTSB web site or where did you learn that? (I'm a little confused by the use of "a" probable cause. You are saying that they have determined that more than one thing caused the crash?)

 

 

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I have flown the GX and alway, always, always checked the folding wing linkage before fllight but still felt I should have checked it one more time. The folding feature is really a unique and useful feaure of the Remos but it is also a feature that has brought down more than one of these aircraft due to the operator's failure to check this before flying. It will be sad if the reason for this fatality was not due to equipment faiure but was due to the pilot's failure to check for proper location of the sleeve and pin.

 

I looked in the NTSB database and of the dozen or so Remos accident reports, a couple are incomplete and one can't tell for sure, but they don't sound like control issues. The one in Sebring last year is the only incidence I saw of a Remos control issue. Are there more exmaples overseas or that are not reported?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Jim, I recall two Remos crashes where failure to secure the locking sleeve on the aileron linkage was the causal factor but this is unnofficial. I have attached a list of incidents involving Remos. Perhaps perusal of these would indicate cause? I see one crash resulted in "2+1" fatalities? Maybe someone on the ground was involved?

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/dblist.php?AcType=GX

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Dick,

 

I'd rather see the official results. The Sebring one is still the only incident officially reported. Where is the other?

 

One of the German crashes was a mid air and the other site didn't accept the URL so who knows on that one.

 

No one will argue that a good preflight is essential. I am disappointed when we start assigning blame without the slightest clue as to what happened. On another site, a poster said they toaked with a witness pilot who says the guy radio that he had difficulty with the elevator, that he approached at a high rate of speed and that when he pulled power the nose dropped and he crashed.

 

I have no idea if that report is right or not, but it offers an alternative to "well, it has folding wings so he must have messed them up". That would imply aileron's when we have several reports that it is elevator.

 

 

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Jim, failure to lock the aileron sleeve in place after the wings have been brought from a folded position into flying position was called the causal factor of the Sebring Remos crash per the following NTSB report. This is the Sebring Remos crash you refer to.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20090125X01122&key=1

 

I believe that there has been at least one other Remos crash which implicates mechanical loss of aileron control due to failure to properly apply the control rod slide as the causal factor. I'll report back, should I find this.

 

 

 

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Sorry Jim, I used farmer speak rather than lawyer. I don't have any information other than what is on that page. What I do know is Jammie is a top notch A&P at CSP and Helen added that page for a good reason or (hunch). They have a Remos GX at the school. PS that one does not have a parachute. I guess it's an option. I flew it once and went back to the Tecnams'. Too squirrly for me.

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NC Bill and others have it nailed. The BRS is installed to save lives, not to salvage airframes. Alone, with Nancy or someone else, I will put it down on a runway; the alternative for me is to activate the BRS. Speaking of BRS activation, I plan to deploy it above 500' AGL. Speaking of the Remos, an elevator (pitch) problem is a tough situation and at low altitude a realy difficult decision, controlibility is everything. I'm sorry the pilot did not make it.

 

See ya, Ken Nolde, 840KN, 500 hours

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Preliminary NTSB report is out- ERA12FA395. Pilot reported that the elevator was not connected. Elevator quick disconnect was found disconnected and the BRS activation handle was locked with a padlock.

 

In the glider busines, where we have control surfaces connecting, one of the pre-flight items is a positive control check. Lock or have one person hold the controls and you try to move the control surface. Obviously, you shouldn't be able to. I wonder if that would have caught the situation.

 

BRS installed but padlocked.

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I was thinking it was the aileron sleeve that wasn't correctly in place but it was the elevator sleeve instead. But damn, it just burns me up that the chute was padlocked because I'm sure the pilot must have tried this. Damn again.

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