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New CTLS POH


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So I really opened up a can of worms...

 

I called FD asking why there was a big red warning light for the alternator but nothing in the POH (CTLS 2008 POH) emergency procedures?

 

The answer I got was quite detailed on what to do if the alternator light was on and they ended by saying that it IS in the POH. I responded that it was not in my version and asked for the version they were quoting. After some time of silence I was transferred to another person who offered to email me the current POH...

 

So now I have a current copy of the CTLS POH released this past July and everything has changed, all the Vx and Vy speeds are different... But the emergency section is a lot more detailed including a detailed description of an alternator failure.

 

So am wondering if I should switch and teach this new POH to my students, or should I stick to the old POH which closely mirrors the CTSW POH and we have both aircraft so it is much easier to memorize one set of numbers versus two.

 

Any thoughts on this new POH?

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Hi Doug,

 

The new one. That's why they made those changes.

 

Roger is probably right, but I'd want to know why the changes were made. If they are there to fix real identified safety concerns, then absolutely use the new one. If they are there for liability reasons to appease the lawyers, well...

 

I'd *really* want to know why the V speeds changed. That should not happen unless they identified a structural or performance problem with the old numbers, which would raise my eyebrows a bit.

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Roger is probably right, but I'd want to know why the changes were made. If they are there to fix real identified safety concerns, then absolutely use the new one. If they are there for liability reasons to appease the lawyers, well...

 

I'd *really* want to know why the V speeds changed. That should not happen unless they identified a structural or performance problem with the old numbers, which would raise my eyebrows a bit.

 

I have enough of a problem getting people to read this POH as it is. Most of the other instructors teach their own way and none match the POH. So if I introduce this, it will not be met with great fan fair.

 

I also wonder why the speed change. Was there a design change in the newer CTLS? Other than the newer engine, I can't see anything else different.

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So, is this new POH available on-line, or can you tell us who we need to call tonget a copy? I am not certain, but I believe that the FAA requires that we carry an up-to-date POH, and it is FD's legal responsibility to provide it to us since they have chosen to do business in this country!

Doug G.

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The new version of the POH may not match your aircraft systems so I would stick with the one that came with it, that has your A/C serial number.

 

 

That is exactly right. The light sport category does not meet the scrutiny by the FAA that standard category aircraft meet, hence the loose policy on POH's. but the bottom line is unless the manufacturer requires you to update your current POH to the current you really have no choice. My problem being I believe the POH we were issued with our aircraft is incomplete and poorly written and the new CTLS POH is much better BUT now all the speeds have to be re-taught and I have a very large group that have to be re-learned....

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I got the new POH at Oshkosh this summer but was told to continue using the one that came with the plane from the factory. The new POH was only for the new planes and not the legal one for my 2010 model.

 

 

At least they told you to continue using your old POH. I sure wish they would improve this as the new one is much better. I guess I will use the old withthenew and create my own POH.

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The issue with the new versus old POH is regulatory. As the standard that the POH (formerly called AOI under previous FAA-ASTM rules) is called out on the 8130-15 form, the aircraft should be flown only with that POH. This was not clear to us until recently when we started asking the question why we can't sell the new POH to current owners.

 

To be able to use the new POH for older CTLS aircraft we will need approval from the factory for applicability to the older serial numbers. We have made this request to Flight Design and are also asking for an MRA (Major Repair or Alteration)approval to allow their use. From a practical standpoint what the FAA was trying to do was limit new manuals being used with older equipment and avoiding the possibility of the wrong emergency procedure being used etc.

 

We will let the members of the CT flier forum know when we get an answer. Tom Peghiny

 

Alterations (now § 91.327(B)(5)):

Paragraph (B)(5) adds a prohibition against operating a special light-sport aircraft unless each alteration made after its date of manufacture meets the applicable consensus standard and has been authorized by either the manufacturer or a person acceptable to the FAA. If an aircraft has been improperly altered, contains unauthorized parts, or has been repaired outside the limits specified in the manufacturer’s maintenance and inspection procedures manual, the aircraft will no longer meet the consensus standard and is not considered safe to fly. This determination is similar to that made for type certificated aircraft. A type certificated aircraft that has been improperly altered, or has unapproved parts installed, no longer meets its type design and is considered unairworthy.

 

This operating limitation is consistent with the change to the definition of ‘‘consensus standard’’ in § 1.1, which includes a requirement that the consensus standard address the identification and recording of major repairs and major alterations. See discussion of ‘‘consensus standard’’ in § 1.1 above. This change to § 91.327 also supports the requirement in §

21.181(a)(3)(ii) that a special airworthiness certificate in the light sport category is effective as long as the aircraft conforms to its original configuration, except for those properly authorized alterations performed in accordance with an applicable consensus standard.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I agree with aldowns and feel Tom Peghiny's frustration with FD. Even when I had a 1967 Piper 140, I got updates and the company indicated changes every once in a while. I have a 2008 CTLS and would like to have an up to date version of the POH. Here, I agree with the view that the old one suxs, big time. Anyway, I hope Tom peghiny is successful.

 

See ya, Dr. Ken Nolde, N840KN

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