Roger Lee Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 The skin on our planes is not 100% water proof and has some porosity. A good hard wax will help for those that leave the plane outside a lot. Your's sounds like it gets wet a lot either from direct water, flying, rain and dew. I don't have a lot of experience here, but it could certainly be a factor. Is the skin sinking inward or are you getting actual delimitation and or bubbled up areas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 BTW, I noticed today a lot of very small bubbles on the top on my stabilator. Pinhead sized, but no rippling or deformation of the skin, and everything seems solid...is this normal(ish) or should I be concerned? I'm assuming it's just a minor paint / gel coat issue and of no real consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted September 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 I have those bubbles too on the main body, near the tail where the tie down provided by FD is attached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted September 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 The skin is sinking inward on the stabilizer. The bubbles are on the tail boom, no apparent delamination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 more picture of skin sinking on the horizontal stabilazor. Is it a danger or not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C ICEY Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Acid rain? Check the pH of your dew? Looks like some advancing foam core deterioration to me. Flying with that would make me uncomfortable. I just saw bubbles like that from a Lake 400 amphib that spent the last three months at the bottom of the lake. Looks like long term water saturation bubbles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Flight design aircraft use stressed skin construction, the staple of composites. The core is vital for structural integrity of the aircraft, and is severely compromised if the core is deteriorating. You will be flying an eggshell. The fin is likely scrapped on this CTSW. I would recommend that you have holes drilled, cross sections cut, sanding off layers, etc, ASAP to determine the cause, especially if you are seeing symptoms in the main structure. You need to go into damage control *right now.* if it is something you can stop the main structure from developing, it will be worth it. Sitting here speculating on the cause is stupid, vs taking off an already scrapped part and doing something about it. I also recommend that you wash the whole aircraft down with a cleaner recommended by flight design. There could be anything causing this, from improper cleaner, to something as crazy as pollutants from a nearby factory. Whatever the cause, we are seeing rapid progression of a very very serious condition that could very well total your airplane if we don't take any and all necessary protective steps, no matter how large or small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 floats already stated that he's only used FD-supplied and recommended cleaners. I'm honestly shocked that FD has not stepped up on this and at least asked to have the parts sent to them for analysis. That does not give me a warm fuzzy about the future longevity of these airplanes if they just walk away from this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 floats already stated that he's only used FD-supplied and recommended cleaners. I'm honestly shocked that FD has not stepped up on this and at least asked to have the parts sent to them for analysis. That does not give me a warm fuzzy about the future longevity of these airplanes if they just walk away from this situation. We're taking the word of someone on the internet. I mean no disrespect to anyone here, but the damage shown is usually the result of improper care. It's up to the poster to provide more convincing proof that it is not his/her fault. Cross sections is a great way to help determine the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 I wish I would know the cause. I sometimes wish it was improper care as then I would know what not to do.The plane has been stored for two years in a heated hangar at the Gatineau Airport as I was in Asia. It was covered with a plastic sheet on top, wings removed to protect from the dust. All the damage happen while inside the hangar. For another six months the plane was stored outside in summer. Although it is on floats, I never leave it on water, it comes out after each flight (only three flight this year so far). I was irritated when FD said I likely clean it with the wrong products as I only used twice the composi clean provided by FD. So far FD fast reply is that they will check with Germany if this is guaranteed. For the same damage on the fin, they estimated that it was my responsibility but offered a modest rebate on a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 I wish I would know the cause. I sometimes wish it was improper care as then I would know what not to do.The plane has been stored for two years in a heated hangar at the Gatineau Airport as I was in Asia. It was covered with a plastic sheet on top, wings removed to protect from the dust. All the damage happen while inside the hangar. For another six months the plane was stored outside in summer. Although it is on floats, I never leave it on water, it comes out after each flight (only three flight this year so far). I was irritated when FD said I likely clean it with the wrong products as I only used twice the composi clean provided by FD. So far FD fast reply is that they will check with Germany if this is guaranteed. For the same damage on the fin, they estimated that it was my responsibility but offered a modest rebate on a new one. I understand he irritation, but remember, this is extremely typical of improper care. If you stay polite, but insistent, that you have the damage checked, you might come out ahead. Is it possible that someone mistakenly spilled something on it? Is it possible that cleaners were mixed up? Also consider, if it is a factory problem, we would see this occurring in more than just your aircraft. There is just so many variables. Having cross sections taken will reveal a lot. Just be sure to let Dave know that you are having cross sections cut before you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C ICEY Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 The bubbles are screaming "long term wet storage". A plastic sheet during storage might have been part of the problem, trapping any humidity from a water filled fin and allowing condensation cycles to repeat. just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Storage is fully dry. The plastic sheet makes a roof on top of the plane. The plane is not wrapped in it. The hangar is heated and quite dry. Humidity around 30% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 "I understand he irritation, but remember, this is extremely typical of improper care. If you stay polite, but insistent, that you have the damage checked, you might come out ahead." My job is diplomat. So do not worry about staying polite. I do not want litigation. I just want to make sure that I can fly safely. I understand your argument that other plane would have developed it. If you read the previous posts, you will see that other people had the same problem with their fin and had to change it. I also know from being an offshore sailor that fiberglass does not necessarily behave the same way on all the boats from the same brand. I have seen some develop osmosis and some remain in top shape. Not I am just puzzled and really appreciate all the advices I get on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 The bubbles are screaming "long term wet storage". My airplane has very small bubbles on the top of both sides of the stabilator, and has spent its entire life in a dry hangar: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 mine has small bubbles on the tail and body and its kept in a dry hangar all its life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Hi Andy, Your are mosquito bites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Hi Andy, Your are mosquito bites Must have been quite a swarm, they are all over the stab! Everything is still hard, even the surface of the bubbles themselves, so I'm guessing it's a non-issue caused by paint or gelcoat adhesion defects. Like the dimples on a golf ball, they just make my plane fly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Can you guys give me more pictures of those bubbles? Those look like paint blisters... it's caused by improper drying and application (water in the matrix). I know that pre-2010, processes weren't standardized in the FD factory. This may very well be an FD problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Hey floats, I just thought of something. When was your plane last annualed/condition checked, and did they wash your plane like they are supposed to (FAR 43)? Alkaline soaps are typical in aviation because they cut grease with ease, and don't corrode aluminum. You might have received a plane wash after it was inspected, and they used the wrong soap, leading to this. This also might be why others had to replace their strakes (fins) as well. Those fins can easily wick soap into the part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Hey floats, I just thought of something. When was your plane last annualed/condition checked, and did they wash your plane like they are supposed to (FAR 43)? Alkaline soaps are typical in aviation because they cut grease with ease, and don't corrode aluminum. You might have received a plane wash after it was inspected, and they used the wrong soap, leading to this. This also might be why others had to replace their strakes (fins) as well. Those fins can easily wick soap into the part. Since he is in Canada I don't think CFR 43 applies to him. They may have the same requirements of washing, but I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I do not wash my plane. I use a spray bottle and a towel to clean bugs, alcohol or Oil Eater on the belly. I then use a cleaner wax on the entire plane twice a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 In Canada we are not tied to FAR requirement. We do our own maintenance. The plane has never been washed by an outside party. As I mentioned, I wipe the dew in the morning once in a while. When I squeeze my cloth the water coming out is not clear but whitish as if some paint was coming of. It is very difficult to make picture of white surface, I am adding some pictures, two more of the stabilizer, one of the fiberglass starting to pop on the left aileron and one of the paint that has split open on a wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I have seen one other airplane with problems like these, but it was not taken care of and sat outside in the weather for a good while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floats Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 The plane is stored, wings removed in a heated garage for all winter. This cracking just happened last week. It has never been exposed to temperature below freezing point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.