Al Downs Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I would like to plan a flight from Wisconsin to South Carolina but I am having problems locating fuel stops with Mogas. I know I can us 100ll but prefer to stick with Mogas. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Stop by Copperhill, TN, (1A3) and I can top you off - just give me a head's up. AirNav.com let's you search for mogas. Barnwell, SC had it last time I headed that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Do you need 91 octane or will 87 octane do? Many airports with mogas have 87 octane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downs Posted May 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 I need 91 octane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downs Posted May 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Thanks for the offer fasteddie. I will keep it in mind as I plot my course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Let me sweeten the pot... 1) I can get 93 octane ethanol-free, and, 2) There's a good Mexican place in Copperhill if you need topping off as well! Just let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanik Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 I have often mixed 87 with 100LL (which is about 96 Octane AKI equivalent). To reliably stay above 91AKI equivalent you would want at least 40% 100LL. Keeps the Pb down anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying C Farms Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Al, If your route takes you near Frankfort,KY. then you should fly into the farm. 91 eth. free or 93 with 10 percent. Room in hanger house for plane and two bedroom apartment for you. 6KY3 is ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 I'm a little off your path, but I could help out here in Southeastern Illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 The best for Rotax engines and reduction gear box is to use 91 E10 mogas. but it isnt practical on the road, so you may need to compromise. Make sure to zap the lead with Decalin or other TSP. The E10 Ethonol is not the culprit, lead is. At many airports that have auto fuel it is only 87 octane. That was all that is required for most aircraft using auto fuel. If this is the case mixing 50/50 the 87 and 100LL gives a result of high enough octane for a 100hp Rotax (over 91) with 50% less lead than straight 100LL. There is not always 91 octane auto fuel to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Bill Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Barnwell, SC, KBNL had 93 ethanol free self serve last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 The best for Rotax engines and reduction gear box is to use 91 E10 mogas... Ethanol is a negative for Rotax engines. The best fuel would be both lead free and Ethanol free. I realized a hole in a carb float, no doubt due to Ethanol and the stuck float caused fuel starvation on one side only and caused damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Znurtdog Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 check out www.flyunleaded.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Hi Ed, Ethanol is approved for Rotax and Bing carbs. The floats can break down, but they are alcohol resistant and break down even with straight gas at times. There are Rotax users down in Brazil that use up to 22-23% ethanol and have been for many years. Rotax only approves 10% for now because that is all they have actual tested at the factor. I have had 100LL users come in with float deterioration. It's just a bad coating from the factory. p.s. I know, per me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Ethanol is approved, so is 100LL, that doesn't make it a positive. Even if my float was a bad example the point stands, eathonal is hard on rubber. The best fuel choice would be fuel free of lead and Ethanol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 It's a positive when there is nothing else, but cruddy 100LL. Ethanol over 100LL any day. Most of us don't have access to 91+ oct ethanol free fuel any more. You mean it doesn'tt make you feel warm and fuzzy all over helping Uncle Sam protect the environment with the ethanol fuel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 It's a positive when there is nothing else, but cruddy 100LL. Ethanol over 100LL any day. Most of us don't have access to 91+ oct ethanol free fuel any more. Barnwell, SC, KBNL had 93 ethanol free self serve last time. You mean it doesn'tt make you feel warm and fuzzy all over helping Uncle Sam protect the environment with the ethanol fuel? Burning food as fuel doesn't help the environment, but it does make food less affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downs Posted May 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Thanks to all that have responded. If and when I make the trip I will be sure to contact someone on my route. Another question I have being a low time pilot is what precautions or tips can you give me for whatever I will encounter with the mountains? I will be heading as close to Fort Mill SC as my destination coming from Milwaukee WI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 No water to drain with ethanol because It is absorbed and dissipated throughout the whole tank's content. If you ever physically see water in ethanol fuel then it is fully saturated and must be completely drained. Ethanol isn't an issue with humid climates because it won't absorb enough through a fuel vent to make any difference. It will burn through the system and you'll never know. On a CT's full tank (17 gal) with 91 oct. with ethanol you could pour 6-8 oz. of water in each tank and it would be absorbed in the fuel well enough to burn through the system. It would be a great thing to do and you would loose some of the fuels performance, but it would burn. We used to do demos like this when I was in HazMat for the non-HazMat firefighters. We have no fuel hose on our planes that water would make any difference with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Wrong. Ethanol has no ill effect on the engine at all. Ethanol will be a problem if you leave it long in a tank outside when it rains or its humid, it attracts water, but that can always be drained off. Ethanol can corrode some types of rubber hose, but FD eliminated those problems long ago. FD certifies and even encourages the use of 91 E10. They warn against AVGAS 100LL due to the lead and say the oil must be changed more often as a result. Wrong yourself. E10 has negative effects on motors as well as on performance. I never advocated the use of 100LL but your rebuttal is always that Ethanol is preferable to 100LL, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 An engine is really just an air pump, and ethanol and gasoline are close enough in specific energy (though ethanol is lower) and combustion characteristics that the engine doesn't generally care which it's burning. The problem with ethanol is that it aggressively attacks seals, gaskets, tubing, fiberglass, and all manner of materials that are attached to the "air pump". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Ethanol isn't my first choice for a fuel additive and for best performance. Like anyone I would prefer straight gas, but it is what we have to work with and it does work and it is a better choice than 100LL for use in a Rotax. 100LL is far more detrimental to the Rotax over its life than ethanol laced fuel. I quit worrying about ethanol many years ago because that's all I can get and a thousands of hours later it hasn't been a problem for most. Yes there can be a few considerations depending on your aircraft setup, but for the CT it's not an issue. It's a choice between the lesser of the evils. If you have seen as many Rotax 100LL use engines and pictures of Rotax engines after a long run of 100LL you'ed think ethanol fuel was better too. 100LL is like smoking, It won't kill you or cause a disease after 1 or 2, but have a long life of smoking and the damage is done. Rotax no longer recommends 100LL and advises to use another fuel, but does say it can be used, not should be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Wrong. Ethanol has no ill effect on the engine at all. Ethanol will be a problem if you leave it long in a tank outside when it rains or its humid, it attracts water, but that can always be drained off. Ethanol can corrode some types of rubber hose, but FD eliminated those problems long ago. FD certifies and even encourages the use of 91 E10. They warn against AVGAS 100LL due to the lead and say the oil must be changed more often as a result. I wouldn't say they encourage it I would say they tolerate it. Take a look at this from Flight Design. http://flightdesign.com/files/Service%20Notification/SN-ASTM-CT_-06-en.pdf It talks about the ill effects of using ethanol fuel in aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Roger, you and bigs keep arguing that its a choice between lead and ethanol, yet Al was found 2 stops that seem to have Ethanol free, lead free, hi octane, ( probably additive free ) gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Roger, you and bigs keep arguing that its a choice between lead and ethanol, yet Al was found 2 stops that seem to have Ethanol free, lead free, hi octane, ( probably additive free ) gas. While it is still available in some areas it is getting harder to find. My supplier used to keey it at their local service station, but they don't anymore. They only have one terminal that they can get it from now, and it is not the one they normally use. When I get it it it comes at a 50-60 cent premium over the cost of 91-93 octane fuel at the local station. I don't know how much longer we will be able to get it. I also know some states mandate that all fuel contain ethanol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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