sandpiper Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 My Lake didn't seem to be very expensive to insure. But, after 33 years memory can be iffy. This was for a 1972 model circa 1980. They were tough as hell but could porpoise. Improper checkouts could lead to disaster. Think what a flat rock does after skipping across the water. And, like any amphib, a water landing with the gear down wasn't pretty. But, the Lake stayed right side up. There were 13, as I recall, drain plugs. Rainwater could fill it up. The drain procedure was do one at a time. I knew of one guy who did all thirteen with the intent of letting each drain as he went from drain to drain, got distracted, and had a nasty surprise when he got back from fishing. Most had auto bilge pumps but it wasn't designed for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Snicker, snicker. "(7) A propulsion system with a maximum power output of 100 kW (135 horsepower) or less, regardless of flight phase or de-rating of the engine." No Carbon ICONs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I would think the next thing is they will determine it needs a 914 and, of course, a CS prop so it can safely get off the water on the same day the take off is started. Now we are easily above $200K. On a hot day, higher D.A. little wind, smooth water, gross, it may be a challenge. Certainly the FAA can see the safety improvement of a 914 & CS and the benefit of another exemption. I have seen more than one float plane balled up in the weeds because a pilot though his plane would do more than it could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 It's been more like 8 years. They've gone through three rounds of financing, to the tune of something around $60 million! There's some funny accounting going on. Just how many do you think they'll need to sell to make any money? Lets see, 300 with a profit of $20,000 each... There's a fast $6 million. Only 2,700 more to go. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Well, after the company owner get's his $2-5mil a year, that $60mil goes quickly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 John, wondering if your Lake was a PIA for maneuvering on the water when docking, etc.? Seems like it could be a handful during even slight winds to go where one needs to go while on the water. Wondering if those who have only been SEL pilots and have plunked down their deposit on the Ikon realize they aren't going to have something like a jet-ski in regards to manuverability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Water landings are not allowed in Georgia, so I don't think we'll see many Icons in my neck of the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Water landings are not allowed in Georgia, so I don't think we'll see many Icons in my neck of the woods. well, officer, the lake seemed the best spot for my emergency landing - I didn't want to land on the governor's motorcade on the interstate - and the gater looked like he was going to eat my airplane so I of course shot him and not wanting to waste the hide - hey! Where you going with my new boots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 well, officer, the lake seemed the best spot for my emergency landing - I didn't want to land on the governor's motorcade on the interstate - and the gater looked like he was going to eat my airplane so I of course shot him and not wanting to waste the hide - hey! Where you going with my new boots? ...and after shooting the gator I realized what was wrong with my airplane, fixed it, and took off again so my plane would not be a hazard to boats navigating on the lake. Repeat as necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 John, wondering if your Lake was a PIA for maneuvering on the water when docking, etc.? Seems like it could be a handful during even slight winds to go where one needs to go while on the water. Wondering if those who have only been SEL pilots and have plunked down their deposit on the Ikon realize they aren't going to have something like a jet-ski in regards to manuverability? PITA? Depends. On shores with lots of brush a high wing regular float plane trumps it every time. Same with docking to a normal dock. I can't think of many (any) times I used a dock. Most of my use was to leave Anchorage Merrill Field going to a lake or river. Wilderness, no docks. We had places we went where you could put the gear down after a water landing then taxi up on the beach/shore. Advantage Lake. On a lake with a decent shoreline but no beach it was a mixed bag. I would just bring the nose up far enough on the shore to hold it. Upon leaving, just push off and let the wind take you out. UNLESS the wind was coming from the water. Then you had to turn it around then get in. That's when the fun began. No real way over the wing so you had to go around the wing and to the cockpit. By then the water was almost always over your waders. Big advantage float plane. I usually let my wife do that :unsure: . The ONLY reason I went with the Lake is because float plane parking in Anchorage was precious. I was on the waiting list at Lake Hood for almost 20 years before my name came up. And I could not, at the time, come up with the price of admission to an amphibious float plane like a C-180/185. I could do the price of the plane, but not the amphip floats. At least the Lake got me to most good spots to fish camp, etc. In AK you can land on almost any water you have the guts to attempt. Restrictions are, basically, non existent. In summary, the Lake made a poor substitute for a "real" float plane for many of the reasons mentioned. It performed similar to a C-180 on floats take off, climb, and speed wise. It was harder to load and less roomy than a C-180. And, as gross was approached it suffered badly whereas the C-180 stayed happy. And, a non turbocharged Lake was a DOG in the climb after about 5,000'. I had it to 11,000 a couple of times but, even in a cooler state like AK, this took some serious time. Fortunately, most places are not very high. The highest lake I used was 3000MSL. Took patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Does the Icon have retractable gear or is it water only? I don't see any gear or fairings for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 www.iconaircraft.com/specifications-and-features.html A5 Specifications. ICON A5 — Amphibious Light Sport Aircraft (S-LSA) ... Retractable landing gear (gear can be deleted entirely to make a pure seaplane) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 retractable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Would deleting the gear affect the permitted gross weight? Is there any special or unique certification for one without gear? Could one change and add gear later if one desired or would one need new operating limitations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 I wonder how a forced landing would go in an A5. I suspect the best option for an off field landing would be the BRS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't know about the Icon but the Lake could be ordered without gear. But, it was not something you added later. Very few were produced that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 let me try this again: www.iconaircraft.com/specifications-and-features.html A5 Specifications. ICON A5 — Amphibious Light Sport Aircraft (S-LSA) ... Retractable landing gear (gear can be deleted entirely to make a pure seaplane) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 If you can easily remove the gear I would think you would gain that weight in carrying capacity. I suspect it is not a simple operation, if it is even possible, once it is installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Maybe I should have been more clear. I don't know about the Icon but the Lake could be ordered without gear but the gear could not be retrofitted. I don't know if it can be retrofitted to the Icon. The added later part is what I was saying I don't know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 There's also this offering for LSA amphib: http://www.lisa-airplanes.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 The ICON has retractable gear because ALL sea planes are allowed retractable gear, including an LSA sea plane. You CANNOT delete the gear. It comes standard on the plane. Its part of their certification. The ICON has retractable gear because ALL sea planes are allowed retractable gear, including an LSA sea plane. Sorry I can't make sense of that statement, what do you mean? You CANNOT delete the gear. It comes standard on the plane. Its part of their certification. Because its part of a certification that they don't have? Why does Icon list the sea plan configuration as an option? http://www.iconaircraft.com/specifications-and-features.html OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT (pricing and availability to be provided at Production Notice) – ICON Complete Airplane Parachute – Night lighting package – Seaplane configuration (no landing gear) – Attitude Indicator – Custom A5 towing trailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I saw on YouTube last night that the the seaplane version (sans landing gear) is labeled the AS rather than A5. That was from a few years ago (when the plane was priced at $130k) so I don't know if the designation is still correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 So to get back to topic (sort of)...has Flight Design applied for an exemption for the weight of the BRS for their whole fleet yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Why don't you guys read the FAA letter? It says the BRS by itself is not reason for a weight increase. Other interesting and important points as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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