Scared Myself Today

[Tom Baker]

When what I described happens the airplane is almost plowing away from the side of the wheel that lifted.

An other thing I see happen from time to time is with the higher flap settings if you have a cross wind correction in place and relaxe the back pressure the airplane will swerve towards the downwind side due to the aileron input, because of the increased drag on the downwind side.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Its noteworthy that when you are on final with the correction in place you are steering ( yawing ) to the left and it doesn't look like it, it looks like you are steering strait because you are in agreement with the runway. When the nose wheel comes down any remaining left steering will steer you left in relation to the runway.

[Ed Cesnalis]

When what I described happens the airplane is almost plowing away from the side of the wheel that lifted.

An other thing I see happen from time to time is with the higher flap settings if you have a cross wind correction in place and relaxe the back pressure the airplane will swerve towards the downwind side due to the aileron input, because of the increased drag on the downwind side.

 

Think about that Tom, is it drag or is it steering? The thing that changes when you relax back pressure is you give steering authority to the nose-wheel. Asymmetrical drag should be at work before and after you relax back pressure, this was a sudden change.

[Tom Baker]

Think about that Tom, is it drag or is it steering? The thing that changes when you relax back pressure is you give steering authority to the nose-wheel. Asymmetrical drag should be at work before and after you relax back pressure, this was a sudden change.

 

I should have put a space between paragraphs. When I mentioned the the adverse yaw (drag on the downwind side because of the flaperons) it was not intended to be a reason as to why Andy had a problem. It is just another issue that I have seen with our airplanes.

[FlyingMonkey]

Thanks Tom, this may be exactly what happened.

 

I went back up today and because my confidence was a bit shot I was not in best form. My landings were better, but mainly because if anything looked even a little amiss, I went around. I went back to 15 flaps, and found that I was way too high on many approaches and had to abort due to the longer approach needed and having accustomed to 15 flaps.

 

Most of my landings were either left of center or on center and then going left after touchdown, which is a tendency I have been fighting. I think this is a combination of me not looking down the runway, left turning tendency not being adequately countered, and not holding enough back stick.

 

The other tendency I have been fighting for a while is that I relax when the mains hit. I don't drop the nosewheel, but I don't always keep increasing back pressure to the stop as I should either. The one near-perfect landing I had I hit on the centerline with the mains just as the stick hit full back (yes Eddie, a full stall landing!!!), and I just held it there. The nosewheel came down when it needed to and I tracked very straight. So clearly this can be overcome, I just need to stop being lazy and work the correct inputs.

[mocfly]

Andy,

Here is something that had me get the plane in the right track and on the centerline. Next time you go up when you turn to final extend the centerline so it goes between the rudder pedals. Keep that line going thru the center of your body and you will almost never get out of track.

Try it you may like it.

Chris

[FlyingMonkey]

Thanks Chris!

[Tom Baker]

Try what Chris said it might help. If you are always going left or landing to the left of center it sounds like you don't quite have the site picture yet. When you are sitting in the airplane center for you will be almost in line with the "BARO" button on the Dynon. It is hard to get the airplane perfectly straight, and I think some may never really get there.

[FlyingMonkey]

Tom, it's not quite like that. I'm keeping the centerline all the way to touchdown, then going left.

[Doug G.]

Is the centerline between your feet? Or, does it look like it is centered. There is an optical illusion of sorts that makes it look aligned when it isn't. You can tell where it should be when you taxi on a calm day. (There is some weathervaning that goes on with wind.) If you keep it between the pedals you should go straight.

[coppercity]

The CT sight picture will make you feel like the nose is pointed well to the right (when sitting in the left seat) even though it is straight with the centerline. Sounds like you have the right picture if your landing straight. Just to make sure you have it, line up the taxiway, you should see the centerline under your right leg, then take your right arm and put it straight out touching the top of the instrument panel. The centerline should follow right down your arm, notice how far the observed centerline of the airplane is to the right! This illusion generally causes pilots to land with the nose left, left of centerline, and drift left during takeoff and landing roll outs.

[FlyingMonkey]

Thanks guys, I will check and confirm my alignment.

[FastEddieB]

I encourage my students to look at the left runway edge while flaring, to judge height. This is in line with FAA recommendations.

 

As speed decreases, that point moves closer to the plane. No exact guideline, but one learns pretty quickly where he or she has to look to accurately judge height.

 

Problem is, our bodies tend to follow our eyes. It's like if you see an object suddenly appear in the road and fixate on it, you'll often find yourself steering towards it. If you're in a car, you can pride yourself on how well you straddled it to avoid hitting it. On a motorcycle or bicycle, that often does not work so well.

 

So, if you're looking at the left runway edge on landing, getting "pulled" in that direction fits.

 

You can possibly test this cautiously by trying next time to look at the right runway edge to judge height and see what happens. In any case pay attention to where your eyes are throughout the flare. Fixating too far down the runway can cause problems in height estimation, again borne out by FAA recommendations in the Airplane Flying Handbook.

 

BTW, look for a post from me about getting together Sunday or Monday, to include some of the other local pilots.

[FlyingMonkey]

Eddie, I usually look to the far end of the runway, and judge my height by that. I never consciously look to the side in the flare.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Andy,

 

The far end of the runway here is over a mile away, the angle changes are too small to judge height.

 

You want to look closer to the airplane and at the runway edge in order to judge height.

[FastEddieB]

Andy,

 

Different strokes and all that, but...

 

(click to enlarge for easier reading)

 

FAA:

 

 

Kershner:

 

 

And I think these photos, taken at very different heights, show the difficulty a pilot may have if he or she looks too far down the runway:

 

[Tom Baker]

Andy, if you take your feet off the rudder pedals while taxiing does the airplane go fairly straight ahead?

[FlyingMonkey]

It's got a very slight right tendency, Tom.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Andy,

 

Thanks for posting your go-around video and letting us discuss it. I find it interesting that there is so little we can agree upon. It is hard enough to follow along when seated next to the pilot but when using your video alone there is no sense of wind, no forces only sounds and images from one point and one focal length.

 

We all seem to agree that the CT went left and the go-around was needed.

 

We are at odds on flaps, a few think the 30 degree position was not a factor some think it was a big factor. I think it is a minor factor,the lower pitch attitude has your nose-wheel lower and if you don't counter it there is a tendency to get on your nose-wheel sooner.

 

There are lots of thoughts on what caused the left turn but no agreement.

 

Some lessons that I see are:

• Control pitch attitude before and after contact
  
• Maintain directional control prior to and after contact.
  
• Leave aileron correction in and increase it on roll out
  
• It could be a left turning tendency or a down wind turning tendency, either way early recognition and prevention or early correction are needed.
  

I see the same tendency on my CTSW here at Mammoth, crosswinds are from the south so when I land on 09 I get the left turn, but I expect it and keep my nose up higher and longer. When I land on 27 I get a right turn.

 

My thought process says that the south wind should drift me north but turn ( weather vane ) me south therefore I always see this tendency as side slip correction that needs to be removed ( rudder unfooted ) for nose-wheel contact. Holding it off reduces the issue.

[FlyingMonkey]

CT, the airplane went left in response to my control input. The initial departure from the centerline was to the RIGHT. In the video it doesn't look like much, but the side force going right was quite high. I countered with left pedal, which cause the swerve left and the wing to dip and the main wheel to come up.

 

I think my left pedal correction was overly aggressive, causing the loss of direction control. The big question in my mind is why the airplane went right on touchdown, necessitating the correction to the left.

[Jim Meade]

You never did comment on where you think the wind was from at touchdown, and if you're not sure, which quadrant was it working through.

[Ed Cesnalis]

CT, the airplane went left in response to my control input...

 

Thanks, I think I see it correctly now.

[FlyingMonkey]

You never did comment on where you think the wind was from at touchdown, and if you're not sure, which quadrant was it working through.

 

Sorry, the wind was variable but from the ATIS and the sock I think it was a crosswind from the right 5-7 knots,

[sandpiper]

In most instances, my CT wants to go left on roll out unless I consciously make sure it doesn't. Gets back to "fly the plane".