FastEddieB Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Andy, I bought one of the new style, and have yet to install it (if it ain't broke...). I guess I might need to if I ever get near 1,500 hours, but you'd be welcome to try it to see if it helps. If it does, you can just score me a replacement when you can. Though they aren't terribly expensive, so it might make sense just to go ahead and buy and install one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mocfly Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Eddie, Why not wait until 1999hrs and then install it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Eddie, Why not wait until 1999hrs and then install it? My impression was that, without the mod, the overhaul limit was 1,500 hours. That said, I'm Experimental, so I don't think it matters from a legal standpoint. IIRC, leaving my existing "ball" in place met with Roger's blessing when he was casting an eye on my Sky Arrow last fall, and replacing it was an option. Again, using the philosophy of, "If it ain't broke..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 The TBO extension is an option for those that qualify, but who doesn't want an extra 500 hrs to TBO. For those that have a little earlier model engine it is still worth the upgrade. It isn't life altering, but can take care of some peoples oil pressure issues. i.e. pressure fluctuations or low pressure. Some may not see a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 I thought my engine is marked as having a 2000 TBO, so maybe it's already installed? I don't know what to look for so I have no idea if it's there or not. In fact, I'm still not sure exactly what the darned thing does. I hear cones, springs, balls, etc...is this it? : :huh: Thanks for the offer Eddie, but if it's something that will help tame the oil pressure I'll just spring for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 This is the guy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Look under the oil filter about 2" to the left as you look at the filter from the front. There is a bolt that goes up into the engine. It should be safety wired too. If it is flat smooth headed it has not been done. If the head of the bolt is recessed in the center then it has been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Look under the oil filter about 2" to the left as you look at the filter from the front. There is a bolt that goes up into the engine. It should be safety wired too. If it is flat smooth headed it has not been done. If the head of the bolt is recessed in the center then it has been done. Coolio, I will run out to the hangar after work and check it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 The thing is the mushroom cone in place of the ball is not required for the 2000 hour TBO, just the cap and spring. The cone is if you are having oil pressure fluctuations. You would need to take it apart to check for the cone. You might also look in the logbook to see if it was added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 I'll check the log, thanks Tom. I am having fluctuations, so it's probably 50/50 that I need all the parts you mentioned. I'd only not have them installed if they are already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Bah, looking at a parts diagram I see this cannot be verified externally, the plug has to come out to see these parts. EDIT: Re-read Roger's post, will check for recessed head bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Andy, the cap can be seen from just looking. If it has the new cap the spring should have been changed. The was not required to be changed unless you were having problems with the oil pressure fluctuating. If you have the new cap and sign off in the logs I would say your good for the 2000 hour TBO. Unless it is logged that the cone was installed the only way to know is pull it out and look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 I have the old style bolt, so fooey. If I'm reading the schematic at CPS correctly, I need the new bolt, the spring, the little mushroom piece, and the small shim. Does the mushroom replace the ball or sit under it? I will order the parts tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Rotax bulletin # SB912-057UL, dated Dec. 14, 2009 the Rotax oil pressure cap screw #841-983, oil pressure spring #838-122 and oil pressure regulator cone #857-230. Your not forced to change to the mushroom, but would be a waist of time and money not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Rotax bulletin # SB912-057UL, dated Dec. 14, 2009 the Rotax oil pressure cap screw #841-983, oil pressure spring #838-122 and oil pressure regulator cone #857-230. Your not forced to change to the mushroom, but would be a waist of time and money not to. So I don't need shim 227-055, and the mushroom replaces the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 NO you don't and don't even think of using one. You need volume and not pressure. The average person runs 40-55 psi for oil pressure and that's just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Got it, the shim is only there to raise pressure, which I don't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Oil sender relocation was done today. Everything seems to be working as designed, but my oil pressure behavior has not changed. On startup (from cold) oil is over 50 psi, then as it warms up the pressure slowly creeps down to 32psi. When throttle is increased, pressure drops further, to 20psi at 4000rpm. I did not run the engine faster than that. I have the parts on order to change out the oil pressure bypass (I think that's what it is) to the newer mushroom style, but if that doesn't help I'm definitely getting worried. The big question, is it safe to fly locally at these pressures? What would be the lower bound of oil pressure for safe flight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Pressure dropping from revving up in Rotax is normal. That's quite a large swing though. My old engine wouldn't climb above 30 psi, no matter what we did, and we ran it all the time between 20-30. Never thought much of it until 178CT joined our fleet, but by then, 6FD wasn't far from TBO, so we just decided to wait until then. Pressure is now 50 psi + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 Andy, changing out the parts for the regulator will not hurt anything. Also I would double ckeck to make sure the new sender is OK. Here is a resistance chart for the single connection sender. I think the new one should be the same. Notice as the pressure goes up so does the resistance. I would also check the resistance of the 2 sending unit tabs with the ground wire removed and from the instrument side to the engine with the ground wire connected while the engine is running. I think you should also check for voltage from the engine case to negative terminal on the battery while the engine is running. VDO 0 - 10 bar oil pressure sensor. Bar psi Resistance (Ohm's) 0 = 0 = 7.2 0.5 = 7 = 18.2 1 = 14.5 = 28.2 1.5 = 21.75 = 39.2 2 = 29 = 49.2 3 = 43.5 = 68.2 4 = 58 = 87.2 5 = 72.5 = 104.2 6 = 87 = 121.2 7 = 101.5 = 137.2 8 = 116 = 153.2 8.5 = 123 = 160.2 9 = 130.5 = 167.2 10 = 145 = 181.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 Normally a big drop like that on the oil pressure from just advancing the throttle is a grounding issue. Where did you mount the ground wire for the new sender? I small drop is one thing, but this one is too large. You need to replace those oil pressure parts before you mess with anything else. It needs to be ruled out. If you have a new sender, if you have a new solid ground and if you have the old parts that is where I would look next. 22 psi is bottom, but I really don't think that is your real pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 I grounded to the ground on the regulator. Tomorrow I will run a second ground wire to a different ground point so it will have two ground paths and try again, and I will try to get a meter on it as Tom suggests too. The sender comes with two little metal washers on the contacts, not sure if they serve a purpose or just there to protect the contacts, but they were left on...could they be interfering with good contacts on the sender? I can remove those easily enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Today I changed the 14ga ground wire used with my sender to 10ga wire. In addition to the wire grounding at the regulator, I added an additional 10ga grounding wire from the sender to just under the ground wire coming off the battery, so there are two very good ground paths. This made a noticeable difference. On start up pressure was at 60psi, but only came down to 40ish in a few minutes of warm-up, then to 35psi where it stayed for quite a while. After a good amount of flight time (about 2 hours total split in three flights) at 5200rpm cruise, the pressure varied from 28psi to 40psi, but never lower and the swings with throttle changes were less severe. I'm hoping that the pressure regular parts will further help things when I have them installed, and perhaps my oil pressure woes are starting to see a resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hi Andy, If this pressure swing isn't corrected by the new oil pressure parts them you still have poor ground somewhere. It may be the Dynon unit. Some units have had to have a separate ground wire attached to the Dynon case. if you want to rule out grounds altogether attach a temporary ground wire from the oil sender negative to the battery negative. Attach another temporary ground wire from the battery negative inside to the Dynon case. if the problem goes away you have your answer and solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Roger, do you mean the Dynon EMS? I have a UMA gauge and no EMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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