FlyingMonkey Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Andy. - proper terminology is "pilot cooling fan". We know this because, should it stop, you can see the pilot start to sweat. Now THAT makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Andy. - proper terminology is "pilot cooling fan". We know this because, should it stop, you can see the pilot start to sweat. I have used it as "such" here in Florida , many times. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 The CTLS does not have a fuel selector, it has a on/off valve. Tom you may know this but for clarity to everyone else the CTLSi has both. The same Fuel Shut Off valve as the CTLS, and the fuel selector (which has no off setting just left, right or both). Has anyone seen an official explanation of why the fuel selector was added? I don't think it has anything to do with fuel injection. I am guessing it is because they have found imbalanced use of fuel is so common due to flying characteristics/sight picture that to combat it they offered a fuel selector (with no off). As such, I would expect to see it on any new CTLS whether injected or not. Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Tom you may know this but for clarity to everyone else the CTLSi has both. The same Fuel Shut Off valve as the CTLS, and the fuel selector (which has no off setting just left, right or both). Has anyone seen an official explanation of why the fuel selector was added? I don't think it has anything to do with fuel injection. I am guessing it is because they have found imbalanced use of fuel is so common due to flying characteristics/sight picture that to combat it they offered a fuel selector (with no off). As such, I would expect to see it on any new CTLS whether injected or not. Anyone know? I was told either in Rotax recurrent training or by Flight Design that the reason for the selector was to return fuel to the tank from which it came. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I was told either in Rotax recurrent training or by Flight Design that the reason for the selector was to return fuel to the tank from which it came. Where does it go when on "BOTH"? To both? Sound like the valve could get complicated - like the Cirrus dual valve only moreso. Can anyone post a diagram of the CTLSi fuel system. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 there is no both, a post above said there is still an on/off plus a left right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Another post by paul m said, "(which has no off setting just left, right or both)" I thought he was referring to the CTLSi. Does no one have a diagram? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Why would it be complicated? A simple way to do it is to have a T junction, and in the junction you would have a 4 position, 3 way ball valve. Look at the top of this illustration (T port): http://www.threewayb...nd_position.jpg If you don't want fuel shifting from one wing to the other (why would this be a concern? ), then you can put check valves on the inlets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I think the selector was added due to ongoing griping by the CT community that we didn't have one and should not have to fly uncoordinated to move fuel around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Where does it go when on "BOTH"? To both? Sound like the valve could get complicated - like the Cirrus dual valve only moreso. Can anyone post a diagram of the CTLSi fuel system. Just curious. I don't have a diagram, and I have not read the POH (I think they are calling it that now). Just relaying what I was told when the airplane was being introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 The early CT's had selector valves, but too many forgot to switch and they ran out of fuel and crashed. You can't win if you fail to plan your fuel, selector valve or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Another post by paul m said, "(which has no off setting just left, right or both)" I thought he was referring to the CTLSi. Does no one have a diagram? The CTLSi has a fuel selector with Right, Left and Both which controls the gravity feed from the selected tank to the header tank, there is not an OFF selection on this valve. There is a On/Off lever like the CTLS/SW that cuts the feed and return to/from the header tank via two shutoff valves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Where does it go when on "BOTH"? To both? Sound like the valve could get complicated - like the Cirrus dual valve only moreso. Can anyone post a diagram of the CTLSi fuel system. Just curious. The header tank on the CTLSi is vented to the Left main tank so the fuel returned from the engine would fill the header tank then proceed to the left tank via the vent I would assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Why would it be complicated? Well, like in the Cirrus, one part of the valve selects where fuel is coming from (which tank) and another part of the valve selects where the extra fuel is going to (which tank). The valve arrangement you show would have to be "double-ganged" to achieve that. But all will be made clear when someone finds a fuel system diagram - which I'm pretty sure is in the POH. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 If you are trying to move fuel to other tanks, then yeah, you would want two separate selectors. But for 99.9% of GA ops, just double gang them as you said. It would be the simplest mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I would install a selector valve on my LS, if FD had a LOA for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Jefts Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Here is a copy of the CTLSi supp. for those wanting to know more about the airplane. CTLSi_Supplement.pdf It includes a description of the fuel system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 This might be clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thanks Duane and Paul. That clarifies everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 CTLSi fuel system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thanks, Roger. If I was sending a student on a checkride in one of these, I'd make a handful of copies of that and sit down with the student with a highlighter and make sure he or she could trace the flow of fuel to and from the engine in various valve positions. Did the same with the fuel and electrical systems in the Cirrus, and would recommend that for the CTLSi as well - it really helps cement what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 As an aside, there's been some (justified) criticism of planes like my Sky Arrow and the RV12 that carry fuel in the fuselage, because of the fear of fire. I think its proper to mention that even the 1.6 gals of fuel in the header tank could be problematical in a fiery crash. I, for one, would not worry about it and do not worry about it, but if its seen as a weakness in other aircraft, for consistency it should be seen in that light here as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Ed, I must say the rocket's proximity to the header tank gives me more pause than the 1.6 gallons upon a crash. As brought up in this post, Roger says the tank is protected from the rocket. Nonetheless, looking forward to the first chute save in a CTLSi. http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/2518-ctlsi-rocket-motor-vs-header-tank/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Ed, I must say the rocket's proximity to the header tank gives me more pause than the 1.6 gallons upon a crash. As brought up in this post, Roger says the tank is protected from the rocket. Nonetheless, looking forward to the first chute save in a CTLSi. http://ctflier.com/i...vs-header-tank/ I'm looking forward to nobody needing to be saved by the chute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I'm looking forward to nobody needing to be saved by the chute. Yes but that would be wishful thinking. Especially with the amount of time we have spent in last 24 hours talking fuel exhaustion and CTLSi schematics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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