schurch379 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Since June, 2013, there are now 2 CTLS's in Hawaii. I fly mine much more than the other owner. I am flying through / into / out of Classes D, C, & B all of the time, and frequently a Controller will ask me what the heck I am flying? Now; I normally just identify myself as "Light Sport N992SA" ( which is then shortened by Controllers, of course ) , and this is "usually..." good enough to keep it all going. However, today--again, and even though it was so busy I had to wait at P for 20 minutes !! to get clearance to take-off on 22L, the Departure Controller out of Class B Honolulu International when transferred from Tower asked me for my "designation". Ok...so, when he was NOT satisfied with my "Light Sport....." version, and seemed annoyed, he asked are you a fast moving helicopter?? and I gave the whole enchilada "Flight Design CTLS, a light sport.....". Then the guy asked, "...I want a designation... like Cessna, or Beechcraft, or...." So, my question is this: does anyone know a simple "designation" that in your experience will "work" better for me through my Class B, and C, in particular ( but also D ) ....???? Scott Kona, Hawaii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Scott, Now you know why so many of us use Flight Design because that is simply what we are. Light sport is a category not a designation. FDCT, foxtrot, delta, charlie, tango. That's why other GA aircraft use their proper names. If you get in the habit it educates everyone and pretty soon they all know who and what you are. Others that come into my airport use Sport Cruiser, RV, Allegro, Tecnam and so on and those are their proper name identifiers. You will need to educate controllers and that will never happen if you don't do it. It takes time, but little by little they will know what a Flight Design is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I realize you are in much more complicated airspace, but I would have responded to a request for designation with FDCT. I also visited or class D tower and left a CTLS brochure with my tail number and FDCT on it so they knew what I was flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Jefts Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Give them FDCT. If they take the time to check their computer they will know what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Bowden Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I've flown 10 European countries with their F.I.R. boundaries and flight plans and FDCT does the trick everytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 This just came up in an adjacent thread. The official (in their computer) designator is FDCT. "Foxtrot Delta Charlie Tango" works in their system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 http://www.doc8643.com/aircraft/FDCT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N751JM Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Scott, when we brought N751JM to Santa Rosa CA 18 months ago we called it "Flight Design <tailnumber>" and everyone quickly caught on. If the controller wants more you can give them F-D-C-T as the official designator. We have a Skycatcher also at the flight school and they use "Skycatcher" for it (not sure why they don't use Cessna - maybe 'cause the Skycatcher has no future there ). Occasionally they will call me "Skycatcher 1JM" to which I gently correct them (especially if is the controller that's flown with me in the CT!). I'd be happy to "demonstrate" proper call sign phraseology with you next time I'm on the Big Island Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downs Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Seeing you seem to have the same problem repeatedly, I would give the confused tower a brochure or something they can look at. I am sure they will catch on quickly but it is a new animal to them. I have only been questioned once and FDCT took care of i. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Since June, 2013, there are now 2 CTLS's in Hawaii. I fly mine much more than the other owner. I am flying through / into / out of Classes D, C, & B all of the time, and frequently a Controller will ask me what the heck I am flying? Now; I normally just identify myself as "Light Sport N992SA" ( which is then shortened by Controllers, of course ) , and this is "usually..." good enough to keep it all going. However, today--again, and even though it was so busy I had to wait at P for 20 minutes !! to get clearance to take-off on 22L, the Departure Controller out of Class B Honolulu International when transferred from Tower asked me for my "designation". Ok...so, when he was NOT satisfied with my "Light Sport....." version, and seemed annoyed, he asked are you a fast moving helicopter?? and I gave the whole enchilada "Flight Design CTLS, a light sport.....". Then the guy asked, "...I want a designation... like Cessna, or Beechcraft, or...." So, my question is this: does anyone know a simple "designation" that in your experience will "work" better for me through my Class B, and C, in particular ( but also D ) ....???? Scott Kona, Hawaii I use "Flight Design, November, Niner, Two,Zero,Charley, Tango" seems to work fine here in Florida. Rarely I have been asked for type, then I say Light Sport. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I don't disagree that calling a CT the appropriate ICAO code of FDCT is the the correct approach. It's just that it really doesn't tell the controller as much as some think. The ICAO performance data is essentially the same for FDCT, EVSS (SportStar), SKAR (Sky Arrow) and TL20. They are all in the very large L1P/S class (Land, single engine, Piston, less than 12,500). There is no data field for high-wing or low-wing. FDCT also is the code for the CT2k, CTSW, CTLS, CTLSi and their UK, US, Europe, rest-of-world variants. This means it covers a 600kg, 80hp CTSW along with a 450kg CTSW with a controllable prop which probably have 30% performance delta. 'Light Sport' probably tells the controller what they really need to know for traffic separation services. I go with 'Light Sport Sting' and respond with "That's TL20 in your database" if asked for more info. Even when being addressed as a 'Sting' it is not uncommon for Center to advise other traffic about the 'Experimental' at XYZ altitude and ABC heading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 I have found that the controllers around here will call me Flight Design when communicating with me but when referring to me for sequencing or separation to another pilot will use Experimental as if they are afraid the other pilot won't know what to look for if they say Flight Design. Not sure why Experimental gives them any more clue what I look like but it all seems to work well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 The recommendations in this thread blurr the ICAO code 'FDCT' and call sign. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name followed by the digits/ letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped (e.g. Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha). EXAMPLE: BONANZA SIX FIVE FIVE GOLF. EXAMPLE: BREEZY SIX ONE THREE ROMEO EXPERIMENTAL (omit "Experimental" after initial contact). 3 options being Land Based Aircraft CT2K, CTSW, CTSL or CTLSi Flight Design Flight Design is best choice and the ICAO code can be used for clarification. FDCT didn't work for years because the ATC reference often wasn't current and FDCT couldn't be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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