Tip Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Rotax is offering a free 912is engine to the first flight school to log 2000 hours. I hope it's a FD. http://www.rotax-owner.com/rotax-blog/item/28-912is-engine-contest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Rotax is offering a free 912is engine to the first flight school to log 2000 hours. I hope it's a FD. http://www.rotax-owner.com/rotax-blog/item/28-912is-engine-contest That would be nice, but I don't see the CTLSi as being a good flight school airplane because of the higher empty weight. Now if we could get the engine in a stripped down model that would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Laughing. The CTLSi would be a rare treat for a student to learn in because of its advancements and sophistication. If you are putting 300 lbs CFIs into planes, of course you will have trouble with any LSA in that situation. The real issue is most trainers get beat up badly, and dont need all the toys the CTLSi is usually equipped with - a waste of money mainly. FD makes the MC it was designed for just that purpose, a part metal lumbering turd at a lower price point which is adequate to the task of teaching students how to take-off and land. Laughing! I knew that this would draw a responce from you. With only 490 pounds useful load the airplane just doesn't work well in a flight training enviroment, in fact it puts it in the same area as a Sky Catcher. I have provided flight training in both a CTSW and a CTLS, have flown a CTLSi, and have also flown the MC. While the CTLSi is a wonderful airplane and it has really nice equipment the useful load keeps it from making a good training aircraft. The MC would make a really nice training aircraft, but it suffers from the same problem as the CTLSi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I wish mine was a CTLSi, my CTLS is going to be do an engine soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I wish mine was a CTLSi, my CTLS is going to be do an engine soon! You're just look'n for that free engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Laughing. The CTLSi would be a rare treat for a student to learn in because of its advancements and sophistication. If you are putting 300 lbs CFIs into planes, of course you will have trouble with any LSA in that situation. The real issue is most trainers get beat up badly, and dont need all the toys the CTLSi is usually equipped with - a waste of money mainly. FD makes the MC it was designed for just that purpose, a part metal lumbering turd at a lower price point which is adequate to the task of teaching students how to take-off and land. I wanted to add something else. All those "advancements and sophistication" that you are talking about are a hiderance to a new student who is just starting out. Students need to be learning basic flying skills instead of how to turn knobs and look at screens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I wanted to add something else. All those "advancements and sophistication" that you are talking about are a hiderance to a new student who is just starting out. Students need to be learning basic flying skills instead of how to turn knobs and look at screens. You have it all wrong...Electric trim, AoA indicators, and autopilots are are there to fly the airplane. The pilot is there to manage the Playstation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 You have it all wrong...Electric trim, AoA indicators, and autopilots are are there to fly the airplane. The pilot is there to manage the Playstation. Just about sums it up. The profession has gone from "flying" to "flight deck management." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Just about sums it up. The profession has gone from "flying" to "flight deck management." I renewed my flight instructor last month, and one of the topics was back to basics. They highlighted several accidents, but one stood out. The Air France Air Bus that crashed in the atlantic. They had a problem with all the electronic equipment and stalled the airplane. They couldn't understand why they were going down instead of pitching up with the stick all the way back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Similar to the Buffalo accident where they ignored the stick shaker and over rode the stick pusher. I can't understand the mental process to cause those reactions, nor the training that took them to that action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Similar to the Buffalo accident where they ignored the stick shaker and over rode the stick pusher. I can't understand the mental process to cause those reactions, nor the training that took them to that action.Let's assume that both those crews had the requisite FAA training at each level, from Private to Commercial, through Multi-Engine and possibly ATP. And that that training included slow flight, flight at minimum controllable airspeed, imminent stalls and full stalls. And that they likely had recurrent training, possibly in simulators, which covered stalls and system malfunctions. Let's further assume that they were bright, coordinated, skilled and motivated people. Let's further assume they were better pilots than you or I, right up to the final, fatal encounter. We must all strive to understand what can cause a trained, intelligent and skilled crew to do the wrong thing when the chips were down. If it happened to them, it can happen to you, and I think any pilot that somehow thinks he or she is better than that may be in for a rude awakening someday. Why? I think the key is using the term "mental process" in the first place. If this were a multiple-choice written test, I'm sure both those crews and nearly everyone here would choose the right answer. But Warren Zevon (RIP) once sang, "You're a whole 'nother person when you're scared". And you almost literally are. Higher brain and cognitive functions get short-circuited and our "lizard brains" step in, bathed in adrenaline, to do whatever nature and evolution has found served us best over millions of years. Such as pulling back on the yoke if the ground is coming up. Or believing our sense of balance over what the instruments say. Or whatever. Anyway, if you doubt any of the above, buy some time in a full-motion simulator and track down a particularly sadistic instructor. I can virtually guarantee that he or she can overload you to a point where you can barely function, and get you to revert to reflexes or eventually just freeze up entirely. Regardless, we should all try to understand what happens in cases like these, and try to learn from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Kent Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Great post - Eddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Hey movingon put up a photo. I think we have an ugly race between him and eddie! I'm just kidding <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Let's assume that both those crews had the requisite FAA training at each level, from Private to Commercial, through Multi-Engine and possibly ATP. And that that training included slow flight, flight at minimum controllable airspeed, imminent stalls and full stalls. And that they likely had recurrent training, possibly in simulators, which covered stalls and system malfunctions. Let's further assume that they were bright, coordinated, skilled and motivated people. Let's further assume they were better pilots than you or I, right up to the final, fatal encounter. We must all strive to understand what can cause a trained, intelligent and skilled crew to do the wrong thing when the chips were down. If it happened to them, it can happen to you, and I think any pilot that somehow thinks he or she is better than that may be in for a rude awakening someday. Why? I think the key is using the term "mental process" in the first place. If this were a multiple-choice written test, I'm sure both those crews and nearly everyone here would choose the right answer. But Warren Zevon (RIP) once sang, "You're a whole 'nother person when you're scared". And you almost literally are. Higher brain and cognitive functions get short-circuited and our "lizard brains" step in, bathed in adrenaline, to do whatever nature and evolution has found served us best over millions of years. Such as pulling back on the yoke if the ground is coming up. Or believing our sense of balance over what the instruments say. Or whatever. Anyway, if you doubt any of the above, buy some time in a full-motion simulator and track down a particularly sadistic instructor. I can virtually guarantee that he or she can overload you to a point where you can barely function, and get you to revert to reflexes or eventually just freeze up entirely. Regardless, we should all try to understand what happens in cases like these, and try to learn from them. You are absolutely, unequivocally correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Hi Tip, When I first saw the title Free Rotax I thought it was the sequel to Free Wiily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Posted February 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Hey Roger, I've never seen "Free Willie" and probably will never see the free Rotax either. I just hope that a FD Flight School gets it. Great advertisement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Ed, I agree with a lot of what you said. But, as Tom and Wm.Ince have alluded to in above posts, basic stick and rudder skills seem to be missing in the initial training. According to the Law. of Primacy, you will revert to first learned skills when you are scared and your world is turning brown. So, if the Law of Primacy is correct, and assuming they had proper stall training, the Buffalo incident, at least, should have been preventable. Perhaps the Law of Primacy is wrong? Or did their training suck because it relied too much on automation saving the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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