FlyingMonkey Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Yesterday I made my first-ever landing on grass, at Deerfield Landing (9GA9): http://skyvector.com/airport/9GA9/Deerfield-Landing-Airport The field is 2900x50ft with a gentle roll-off on either side. I'd say the turf quality is "fair"...it was fairly short but there were lots of clumps of crabgrass and some ant hills to add to the fun. It took at least 3600rpm to get moving from a stop on the surface. A buddy of mine familiar with the field was with me and coached me through it. We did a pass over the airfield as if landing to get a feel for it, then tried it for real. The first pass was a go-around, as there was some kind of thermal lift at the approach end that arrested the descent and made us too high. On the second pass we were ready for that (and it did happen again), and I slipped it in. Both approaches were made at 15° flaps, with a target airspeed of 55-57 knots on approach. Winds were a little gusty, but only 4-7 knots and very mild near the surface. Here's the video, you can see the slip in both the ball and the nose pointed at the trees on the right side. You can also see I was a little lazy in letting the nosewheel settle a bit too quickly, but not too bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEYgOvfeuWE Takeoff was easy, standard soft field stuff: hold the brakes, full power, release brakes, nosewheel off the ground immediately, once the mains were off I leveled to build a little speed then away we went. Also done at 15° flaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 A soft field takeoff is typically not done holding the brakes. Airplane Flying Handbook: "Stopping on a soft surface, such as mud or snow, might bog the airplane down; therefore, it should be kept in continuous motion with sufficient power while lining up for the takeoff roll." p5-8 for Short Field, p5-10 for Soft Field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 A soft field takeoff is typically not done holding the brakes.Airplane Flying Handbook:"Stopping on a soft surface, such as mud or snow, mightbog the airplane down; therefore, it should be kept incontinuous motion with sufficient power while liningup for the takeoff roll."p5-8 for Short Field, p5-10 for Soft Field Yeah...there was not really a good place to roll from and keep moving, and I still had a couple of checklist items to go through so I needed to stop. I wanted maximum performance on the takeoff roll, so I opted to hold the brakes. I might have done it differently if the surface was wet or muddy, but we have not had rain all week and everything was dry and firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Nice! Do you have a LOA for the hula girl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 we have not had rain all week and everything was dry and firm.Then was it a soft field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Andy, your takeoff was short field technique, not soft field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Then was it a soft field? Softer than the asphalt I'm used to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Andy, your takeoff was short field technique, not soft field.Other than holding the brakes and going full power, it was soft field all the way: http://flighttraining.aopa.org/students/maneuvers/skills/shortsofttakeoff.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Nice! Do you have a LOA for the hula girl? She is removable, so no LOA required. Also the correct term is not "Hula Girl", it is "Precision Turbulence Indicator". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 She is removable, so no LOA required. Also the correct term is not "Hula Girl", it is "Precision Turbulence Indicator". Love it! Wonder if we can get a bobble head Roger Lee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Love it! Wonder if we can get a bobble head Roger Lee? I'd pay for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Anyone have a photo of Roger? I can make those bobble heads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Nice guys, real nice. Just remember this if I ever have to hand you a bill for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 How about a Roger Lee action figure? http://www.thatsmyface.com/Custom-Action-Figures/View-all-products.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Other than holding the brakes and going full power, it was soft field all the way: http://flighttraining.aopa.org/students/maneuvers/skills/shortsofttakeoff.html So what you are saying is that except for the things that weren't soft field, it was? You forgot to add the stopping to the list. I know it was not possible, but it really wasn't soft field technique, or at least my instructor and examiner would not have accepted it as such. --- As a student my "soft field" was done on a grass strip in January in ND! We happened to have a winter with very little snow. It certainly was not soft since it was frozen. I am guessing that I am the only one who ever did soft and short at that field in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Anyone have a photo of Roger? I can make those bobble heads! This member's avatar bears an amazing resemblance: http://ctflier.com/index.php?/user/511-safety-officer/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 So what you are saying is that except for the things that weren't soft field, it was? You forgot to add the stopping to the list. I know it was not possible, but it really wasn't soft field technique, or at least my instructor and examiner would not have accepted it as such. --- As a student my "soft field" was done on a grass strip in January in ND! We happened to have a winter with very little snow. It certainly was not soft since it was frozen. I am guessing that I am the only one who ever did soft and short at that field in January. Meh, I think we are nit picking. Few situations lend themselves to a 'pure' technique, so we have to do what is appropriate in the actual situation we find ourselves. I'm not going to abandon a technique just because some aspect of it has to be modified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Meh, I think we are nit picking. Few situations lend themselves to a 'pure' technique, so we have to do what is appropriate in the actual situation we find ourselves. I'm not going to abandon a technique just because some aspect of it has to be modified. In other words, "fly the airplane". What this has always meant, at least to me, is do what is required to make the plane do what you want it to do. Depending on the situation, technique can and should vary. It's not always strictly by the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 True, I was not criticizing your technique for the given situation. It is just semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Meh, I think we are nit picking. Few situations lend themselves to a 'pure' technique, so we have to do what is appropriate in the actual situation we find ourselves. I'm not going to abandon a technique just because some aspect of it has to be modified. The deal is that naming a practice and defining it contrary to what the FAA examiner is going to expect can mislead those who are relying on us experienced pilots to give good advice and mentorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I have heard of examiners asking for a short/soft field take off before. In reality if both are needed you need to figure out anither option, but with 2900 feet of grass that is firm you really didn't need either one. What you did would be a rough surface take off. Get the airplane light on the wheels and off the ground as quick as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Of course, that is common, but if it is a true soft field you won't stop on the runway. From what I have read and seen the braking and full throttle start gains little in our planes. Unloading the nose wheel is something CT flyers are supposed to do, although I suppose it would be more aggressive on a soft field. Beyond that, not much difference - staying in ground effect until speed is gained, then Vx or Vy as appropriate. (Again, with CTs the acceleration doesn't leave you needing ground effect very long.) Any comments Tom? Any tricks for your students for soft and/or short? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Would love to see a written narrative by one of our Sport Pilot CFI's here, taking us through a properly performed soft/short field takeoffs. Any takers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Would love to see a written narrative by one of our Sport Pilot CFI's here, taking us through a properly performed soft/short field takeoff. Any takers? Are the 2 mutually exclusive? From AOPA http://flighttraining.aopa.org/students/maneuvers/skills/shortsofttakeoff.html Soft-field objectives The soft-field takeoff is the flip side of the short field. When the runway is producing excess wheel drag because it is soft, muddy, or snow-covered, we want to lighten the load on the wheels as soon as possible. It doesn't make any difference how much runway it takes or doesn't take. We're willing to accept high drag in exchange for high lift. Unlike a short-field takeoff, we want the little wheel out of the mud immediately - no matter what the cost - because its drag plowing through the mud could be enough to make the takeoff impossible. So, the yoke is hugged to the chest (stick is forward on a taildragger) as soon as the takeoff roll is started. You can feel the prop blast hammering at the tail as it forces the little wheel into the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I have heard of examiners asking for a short/soft field take off before. In reality if both are needed you need to figure out anither option, but with 2900 feet of grass that is firm you really didn't need either one. What you did would be a rough surface take off. Get the airplane light on the wheels and off the ground as quick as possible. Agreed, "rough" is probably a word I should have used over "soft". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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