Oil Change Filter Question

[FlyingMonkey]

The mag plug is to be checked at every oil change as specified in the SB's. The reason you see it at 100 hrs. is Rotax allows (not good judgement and not taught in class) oil to be used up to 100 hrs. If you change oil at 50 hrs. that is where you check it. If you change oil at 75 hrs. that is where you check it. The mag plug is supposed to be checked at the annual which is where many change the oil anyway. Checking the mag plug can not cause you problems and may find the beginning of an issue before it gets 100 hrs. on its way. Many gearbox ills can be seen early and make repairs simple and cheap. All of your engine oil passes by the mag plug. Why would you skip this step since it only takes 5 minutes start to finish and may save you money? 

Here is more food for thought to muddy your water. Technically Rotax wants the oil changed at annual even if it was done 15 hrs ago. 

 

Look at it this way. If I told you it was going to cost you $600+ to fix your gearbox for something that may have cost $50 for a re-shim would not have 5 minutes been worth that early on? That's a $120 per minute. I'm not sure I understand why so many try to get out of the easy maint. that may save money down the road with an early warning.

 

 

Andy,

 

It isn't over sampling, it's an early warning system.

 

 

Thanks Roger.  I had planned to check it every change, but the argument of "you might not be able to see accumulation at 50hrs" makes some sense.  If best practice is to always check it, that is what I'll do.

[Roger Lee]

For 5 minutes of time it becomes a "best practice" scenario, can't hurt a thing and you might save yourself some heart ache.  

I know as a cop you have had ICS and or disaster classes and have heard the term, "best practices". We all know we can use lesser standards, but that has been shown through history to be fraught with problems at times. That is why in every industry we use what they call "best practices". We use it because we don't want to repeat old mistakes that we should have already learned from. 

[Roger Lee]

I just did a Rans S6 last week. The engine is a Rotax 2000 model with only 127 hrs.  It's mag plug was full of particles. Now it's time to find out why. The gearbox had maint. so that would be the first thing to tear apart and inspect.

[Tom Baker]

Roger and all,

I too have Rotax training, and I am scheduled to do recurrent training next month. The SB that he mentions is this one. http://legacy.rotaxowner.com/si_tb_info/serviceb/sb-912-051ul.pdf Please read the SB. For most engines this was a one time required inspection, and you then follow the rotax inspection schedule. For the 164 ULS engines the SB says "the plug must be checked at mandentory oil changes". The last time I looked, if running auto fuel the mandetory oil change interval was 100hrs.

 

If you want do the check that's OK, what I do is follow the information provided by Rotax.

[Tom Baker]

One other thing, in the eyes of the FAA is the magnetic plug the same as a magnetic chip detector? It doesn't completely fit the definition. If they don't consider it a chip detector, then checking it is not something a owner can do as preventive maintenance.

[Steve Schroeder]

I would suggest you switch steps 5 & 6 however.  it works better if you reinstal the drain plug before you add the new oil.  LOL

[N751JM]

Maybe the idea is to test your skill at installing the plug while the new oil is running out???

 

Just checked the 912 Series Line Maintenance Manual, Edition 3 / Rev.1 and it has those steps in the correct order.  What engine have you got?

[sandpiper]

Would you mind expanding upon that a little?  For the sake of us messy Rotax newcomers.    . . .

If you do nothing to prevent it, oil will run out when you remove the filter and into the radiator fins. Then, with the filter off, more oil will run out when the mag plug is pulled.

 

There are posts on this forum showing a couple of ideas on how to catch this oil. My method uses a corner section of a plastic milk jug cut to fit up under the oil filter and oil filter housing. The oil then runs out to the left side enough to clear the engine parts and go into something to catch the oil.

 

I also place paper towel under this to protect the radiators. I have found that I have no trouble keeping the mess from the filter contained using only the piece from the milk jug but the paper towels come in handy to contain the mag plug drainage.

 

Others may have a better method.

[Rich]

Hi Andy, Tom,

 

I go along with the 50 check of the plug at the 50 hour oil change.

The reason I feel this way is because I'd like to see sooner rather than later if there's a problem with the engine making metal.

 

Looking at the samples of acceptable and non-acceptable photo's in the Rotax manual I believe you'd be able to judge if your making to much metal at the 50 hour interval. Then at the next 50 hours you'd check again and compare with the prior check. Will both checks add up to the non acceptable limit shown in the manual?

 

What if the engine started making metal at 20, 30, 50 hours and so on. Waiting to the 100 hour interval may be to late. Catching it early can save a lot of money

[Doug G.]

Roger, I understand why, as a repairman for other people's planes you would want to change the oil with much less than 50 hours on it, but what is the rational in terms of the engine? I can think of no meaningful reason to do that at annual inspection, if it is not due.

[Tom Baker]

Roger, I understand why, as a repairman for other people's planes you would want to change the oil with much less than 50 hours on it, but what is the rational in terms of the engine? I can think of no meaningful reason to do that at annual inspection, if it is not due.

 

 Doug, I see that you are a LSRM. What standards do you use to do the condition inspection on your airplane? What wording do you use for inspection sign off.

 

I do the oil change it because of the condition inspection sign off. It says the aircraft has been inspected in accordance with the manufacturers' maintenance and inspection procedures. Flight Design says to inspect the engine per the Rotax maintenance manual. Rotax says for annual inspection follow the 100 hour inspection checklist. Changing the oil is part of the 100 hour inspection checklist. My rational is not in terms with the engine, but the fact if I am going to sign my name saying I have done something I will make sure I have done it.

 

If you are only working on your own airplane you might want to take a different approach, but I would still think twice about signing saying I have done something I have not done.

[Doug G.]

I only work on my own plane. I sign it as certified for return to service - as an FAA official corrected the person who sold the plane to me who then corrected all the previous entries. I keep the checklists, and probably wrote that it was due at ### hours on the checklist.

If you are correct then Roger saying 15 hours is not correct either. Time is totally irrelevant.

[Tom Baker]

Look at your operating limitations. They will give you the wording that should be used to sign off the condition inspection.

[Roger Lee]

I used 15 hrs as an example. Time is irrelevant when it come to the inspection time. I talked to the FAA and Rotax about this. I only stated that Rotax wanted the oil changed at annual or the 100 hr. regardless of the time on the oil. I didn't say I agreed. Rotax manual says 100 hrs. we don't teach that in school. we tell people 50 hrs and even this can change depending where in the US and who teaches the class. the only instructor I have ever had is Eric Tucker. There very well may be some one that says 100 hrs, but not a single person I personally know uses that . They are either 25 for 100LL or 50 for 91 oct. No doubt there are people that use 100 hrs and far beyond and even the far beyond guys will give you all the reasons in the world why it can't do 200 hrs. They are out there. If you have ever lost an engine and had to come up with the big bucks you'll be a believer about good verses mediocre maint.  Me, I have been there done that.

 

Here is a couple of pictures from our maint. section threads. The safety Officer posted these oil drain tool pics. I also have one. Makes oil drain from the filter easy and most of all clean. The back wide edge fits up under the lip behind the oil filter case housing and just sits there. No mess or fuss.

[Anticept]

100 hour oil changes is actually a carry over from a long time ago, back in the old days of engines. It never really was shaken off. It's more of a mechanic's field experience that we've decided that we should change at 50 hour, even 35 hour intervals in some cases (not counting avgas, this is in general).

 

This was also a time before oil filters weren't used, just oil screens. Experience has shown that engine life doubles when oil is changed more often, with the use of filters.

 

As for the oil: There's formable rubber sheets that you can buy, where you can curl them, twist them, etc, and they hold shape for a while. I've found them extremely useful when working with engines.

[Rich]

 I don't know how my last post ended up so far out of sinc with the mag plug discussion as I answered after Andy's post. Seemed out of place. :blush:

[Rich]

I see what happened. Sorry about that.

[Greg]

Lots of ways to catch the drip from the oil filter removal. I have gone to aluminum foil. It's cheap, you can form it to catch all the drip, it holds itself in place, form a spout to aim at a bucket/can, and can roll it up and throw it away when you are done.

[Tom Baker]

Roger, I know what the book says on oil changes, and I know what is taught in class. I follow the 25 for 100LL and the 50 for auto fuel. I also do an oil change during the annual condition inspection because it is in the Rotax list of inspection items. The point I was trying to make is the magnetic plug check is not required to be done with every oil change. It is a 100 hr checklist item, and for 164 ULS engines per the SB it is a 50 or 100 hour item per mandatory oil changes. That is when it is required to be done. If you want to say it is good practice to do it at every oil change that is fine, but it is not required.  

If you want to say I would rather catch the problem sooner than later that's fine too. Why not check the magnetic plug after every flight? If you cleaned a small amount of metal off after every flight it might never look like the picture in the MM.

[Dan Kent]

One question - Owners can perform preventative maintenance and an oil and filter change qualifies - correct?  What about performing the test for the cracked journal in SB-912-064, they can't do that - correct?

[Anticept]

FAR 43 Appendix D lists what is preventative maintenance that private pilots or higher are allowed to do. It is the legal authority.

 

If you are just a sport pilot, you cannot even do preventative maintenance. It's goofy because they don't even train private pilots on how to do maintenance properly, let alone anyone else other than mechanics.

 

Forgot part of 43.3g. Scratch my last paragraph.

[S3flyer]

A sport pilot can do preventive maintenance as per FAR 43.3g:

 

(g) Except for holders of a sport pilot certificate, the holder of a pilot certificate issued under part 61 may perform preventive maintenance on any aircraft owned or operated by that pilot which is not used under part 121, 129, or 135 of this chapter. The holder of a sport pilot certificate may perform preventive maintenance on an aircraft owned or operated by that pilot and issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category.

[Tom Baker]

A sport pilot can do preventive maintenance on any light sport aircraft which have been issued an airworthiness certificate in the experimental or light sport category.

This goes back to my earlier question. Is our magnetic plug considered a magnetic chip detector in the eyes ofthe FAA. If it is not, then checking it is not preventive maintenance. That would mean it is not something an owner/pilot can do. 

[Anticept]

Whoops forgot about that part of the reg!

[FlyingMonkey]

Got the oil changed, no drama other than spilling more oil on the radiator than I wanted to.   :angry: