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Greenvile TX, CTLS crash


Ed Cesnalis

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Agreed (closed) and keeps sharp objects and rocks from coming in.

As a data point, Cirrus recommends doors closed on a CAPS pull to avoid foreign object intrusion (tree limbs and the like).

 

They do come equipped with a hammer in the console to break out a window if required.

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Glad you guys are ok!

 

 

 

This one gets me every time.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbqDTuAQoi4 (skip to 2:30 in video)

 

It's a very vivid example of the kind of terror engine trouble after take off can bring on (I would imagine). Keeps it together enough to pull it off though.... these moments, while I wouldn't wish them on someone, I'm sure glad when they are caught on camera.. 

 

 

It looks like the "perfect" action would have been to set it down immediately when he first experiences  intermittent power loss. There was a runway in front of him (In no way am I trying to judge his actions negatively). At the same time though..It wasn't a full power loss, and the runway was disappearing quickly. I can understand why he stayed with it like he did. Definitely a scary situation with the wall of trees up there though. He pulled it off, so my hats off to him.

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It's amazing how quick things can get jiggy.  I was flying back from Mexico last week, level 3500 feet and just took it off of autopilot for some reason.  I was calling Prescott radio, trying to open an international flight plan/CBP notice of arrival.  That always makes me a bit nervous as you're never sure if they'll hear you (are you high enough?), do you need to unsquelch the radio to hear them, or if you'll say the right things.  Just seconds after I contact them, and in the middle of my request, the red engine lights go on, and the voice starts saying "engine, engine".  In the few seconds it took me to figure things out, the plane was in a slight turn and I was climbing!  I was "flying the plane", but not like I was Mr. Cool and Collected.  Lot's of stuff went through my mind in those few seconds.  Luckily one of them was that I may have forgot to turn on the generator switch after I started the engine.  Bingo, that was it.  No charging, so the battery got exhausted as my radio transmission sucked up the juice.  I hope this experience helps me the next time.

 

PS.  I'll NEVER turn the power switches on separately again.  I never did in the old CTsw, but the checklist for the new one says the battery switch should go on first, and then the generator switch after you have started the engine.  I've been told the two-step process is BS, and isn't needed.  All I know is that many CT fliers who do this have found themselves in the same situation... red warning lights after 20 minutes of flying.

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Luckily one of them was that I may have forgot to turn on the generator switch after I started the engine. Bingo, that was it. No charging, so the battery got exhausted as my radio transmission sucked up the juice. I hope this experience helps me the next time.

 

PS. I'll NEVER turn the power switches on separately again.

I think this episode points not to a flaw in the sequence of items performed, but a lapse in checklist discipline.

 

I used to occasionally "forget" to raise takeoff flaps. The solution was not to stop using flaps for takeoff, it was to make absolutely sure I actually used my "After Takeoff" checklist.

 

If you had either "Gen Switch - ON" or "Ammeter - CHARGING" in your Runup or Before Takeoff checklist, you probably would have caught the oversight. But I assume "Generator Switch - ON" is somewhere on your checklist, and you missed it in your flow somehow.

 

Not criticizing or finding fault, but whenever I hear of a pilot "forgetting" something, I'm reminded of how fickle memory is, and why even (especially?) professional flight crews who probably have this stuff down pat still use checklists.

 

BTW, I am human. Periodically I run my "After Landing" checklist, and when I get to "Boost Pump - OFF", I realize I never turned it on. It's not that I forgot to do so, it's that I neglected to my 3 item "Before Landing" checklist. No big deal in a Sky Arrow, a bit bigger deal in a retractable or an amphibian!

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Tim, I have done that twice over the years.  Not that I forgot but when I retract flaps after take off I bump the GEN toggle and get the same 20 minutes then electrical failure.

 

Both times I ended up getting a new battery.  They didn't like that deep cycle.

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Roger, the EFIS and flap controller come on with the battery switch (at least on the LS), so it is not possible to start with no electronics on. Don't know what that means in turns of the generator being on at start.

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Roger, the EFIS and flap controller come on with the battery switch (at least on the LS), so it is not possible to start with no electronics on. Don't know what that means in turns of the generator being on at start.

 

If you have the avionics master off the EFIS still comes on with the battery switch??

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All you should start with so the system is not under a load is the battery and gen switch. After engine start then turn on the master avionics switch. The only thing on in our planeis the EMS for start.everything else comes online after the start and the master engaged. I see no good reason to start under a load if not needed.

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On shut down I turn off all electronics separately, then the master so nothing is on or rather drawing power except the EMS. Then I dump the rpm as low as I can then turn the engine off. Then I pull both switches. You should only have to worry about voltage changes if you have anything left on.  I never turn the master avionics on before engine start and never leave it on before I turn it off. Instruments only see normal voltages and no voltage issues at start up or shut down.

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Just for fun, posting the electrical diagram for the CTLSi.  Had a high voltage warning just before my last flight so have spent alot of time understanding this better in past week.  The checklist for the CTLSi has the pilot turning on both the Battery and Generator Masters together.

post-81-0-29939900-1399547875_thumb.jpg

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My start sequence in the CTSW, as taught by my instructor, is:

 

1) All Electrical Items Off.  

 

2) GEN and BAT Breakers On (pushed in)

 

3) Beacon Light On

 

4) Clear Prop Area

 

5) Engine Start

 

6) Avionics Master, Intercom, Position Lights On

 

7) 496 On, Transponder on Standby

 

So I do start with the beacon on, just to warn folks in the area that the aircraft is active and the engine is about to start.  I also will turn on the intercom if the passenger has already put their headset on and I want to talk to them through the start sequence.

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Hi Andy,

 

Your beacon light isn't on until the master switch is engaged. Which is okay. At start the pilot is supposed to look for and clear any people, I highly doubt that if someone is standing that close to the plane's prop at start 1) you wouldn't see them and 2) they are sitting there staring at the beacon light while you turn the key. I see lots of people do that, but seems to be a hold over from long ago. Clearing a start area visually and verbally seems more effective to me. Turning it on right after start seems better, but I doubt the beacon light is what they are looking at while the engine and prop are running. They won't need the light.

 

Bottom line it is just a personal preference. Do whatever feels right to you.

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The beacon light or nav lights are required to be on during night operations (with certain exceptions) as a warning to any nearby personnel, in addition to verbal warnings. That's where it comes from. Best to just simply say "turn it all on"

 

§91.209

No person may:

(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise (or, in Alaska, during the period a prominent unlighted object cannot be seen from a distance of 3 statute miles or the sun is more than 6 degrees below the horizon)—

(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights;

(2) Park or move an aircraft in, or in dangerous proximity to, a night flight operations area of an airport unless the aircraft—

(i) Is clearly illuminated;

(ii) Has lighted position lights; or

(iii) is in an area that is marked by obstruction lights;

(3) Anchor an aircraft unless the aircraft—

(i) Has lighted anchor lights; or

(ii) Is in an area where anchor lights are not required on vessels; or

(B) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off.

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