Rotax 100hr Maintenance Question

[FlyingMonkey]

My airplane is due for its annual condition inspection during the first week of July.  It is due for the Rotax 100hr service at 202 hours, and it is currently at about 184 hours.  I am planning to have the annual, Rotax maint, an autopilot install, and some miscellaneous work done sometime in the next couple of months, at Lockwood Aviation in Sebring.

 

The first question: Is the Rotax 100hr service purely for Rotax warranty and service, or regulatory?  In other words, if it's not done exactly at or before 100hrs, is the airplane out of airworthiness?

 

The reason I'm asking, is that I will probably hit the 100hr service interval before I fly down to have it done, unless I park the airplane and stop flying it at some point before then.  I can do that if necessary, but if I can squeeze a few more hours out of it during the improving springtime weather, I'd like to.

 

Second question:  If I do need to park it, how many hours should I set aside to get it to service?  It's a 4 hour flight to Sebring, should I set aside 4.5?  6?  10?  This maintenance planning stuff is new to me so I want to make sure I leave aside enough time to get it where it needs to be legally.

 

Thanks!

[Anticept]

100 hr is regulatory if you are receiving flight instruction and the instructor or organization that the instructor is part of, provides the airplane. Otherwise, it is only a rotax and FD "requirement," with no regulatory backing.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Aren't annuals due at the end of the month?  Do it a day late and you get another month? 

[S3flyer]

Andy -- you also have 10hrs leeway on the 200.

[FastEddieB]

Aren't annuals due at the end of the month?  Do it a day late and you get another month? 

 

I always begin an annual at the end of the month, so it gets signed off in the following month.

 

Gradually working my way to spring, so it isn't so freakin' COLD when mine is due.

 

Last one begun at the end of Feb, signed off in mid-March and not due again until 3/31/15!

[FlyingMonkey]

Andy -- you also have 10hrs leeway on the 200.

 

That's good to hear, that is probably all the time I'd need.

 

As for timing the annual, I'm not as worried about that...I'll do it a month or two early so that I can go ahead and get my autopilot and AoA pitot installed, and the OAT moved to the correct spot.  But that 10hr leeway will give me some flexibility to schedule things a little later.  Next year I'll probably time the annual more carefully, though I suspect that if I fly like I have this year I will hit the Rotax 100hr again before the annual, and it makes sense to do both at the same time unless you are flying like 150hr+ a year.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Why do you want to do the 100hr?  

[Anticept]

Rotax warranty expires after 200 hours, andy.

[FlyingMonkey]

I thought the Rotax service was every 100 hours...incorrect?

[S3flyer]

Rotax warranty expires after 200 hours, andy.

Or 18 months whichever comes first.

[FlyingMonkey]

Or 18 months whichever comes first.

 

My airplane is a 2007, do you think I'm still covered?  

[Roger Lee]

Don't worry about the exact timing of the 100 hr. Just make sure you comply with the annual. Have Lockwood or whom ever does the annual log it as both the 100 hr and annual. If they say we don't usually do that, then insist. It's your money and you're paying them a lot of it to do what you want, not what they want.

 

If you do smart inspections then you always include the 100 hr and annual together. I always make that my opening statement in the logbook that this is both. Then you are always covered.

If someone flys more than 100 hrs. a year then when they come in for the 100 hr. I do the annual with it. If they come in for the annual first I include the 100 hr. It's very simple and the FAA, FD nor Rotax cares how often you rest the inspection times.

 

 

"Why do you want to do the 100hr?'

Because you're supposed to and if you have an engine failure even after the warranty is expired and have failed to do these Rotax will not help you.

 

It's just as easy to put in an extra few words in the logbook to cover both sides of the coin. I personally wouldn't even buy a plane that has not had 100 hr. inspections. That usually just shows lack of commitment for details and aircraft care from the owner and or mechanic. If they didn't do that work what else did they decide not to do or document. 

[Roger Lee]

Rotax will cover things out of warranty. So long as you didn't cause the problem with aftermarket parts, lack of maint. including lack of documentation. I have seen them cover many a plane that had a defect years out of warranty. They usually will help with at least a 50% off the parts as a minimum. I have been the recipient of such help and it can save thousands of dollars. For just a few extra words in the logbook why be lazy.

 

I have seen warranty help on planes 6 years old and past 1000 hrs.

[Roger Lee]

p.s.

 

When you need help from Rotax, FD or from your insurance company your logbook is usually what saves you. Not some after thought pleading. If it's written in the logbook then that usually stands up.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Part 91 ops do not require the 100 hour and my Rotax warranty was expired 7 years ago.

 

If there is no difference between the 2 inspections including the 100 hour every year in writing it is just words, no actual additional inspection.  Silly.   

 

Roger, you say don't worry about the timing which means to me, don't do and early or additional inspection just make sure you add some words when you do your annual and you wouldn't buy a plane that didn't do this?  I can't see what difference it makes.

[Anticept]

100 hour inspections are a carry over from the dawn of aviation. Back then, radial engines had an overhaul period of 100 hours or less. Oil filtering didn't really exist; just about the only kind of filtering was a CUNO type filter, which is a stack of metallic disks with spacers between them to catch big metal pieces. Some of the engines dumped tons of oil while running, and it was just a natural consequence of the extremely large clearances.

 

As TBOs increased, the 100 hour rule kind of stuck. It ended up being a good multiplier base for limiting part life. Up until the 60's pr 70's, oil changes were only recommended every 100 hours. As time went on, we found out that changing oil more often was greatly beneficial, because it was really hard for oil to last long in an engine for that entire 100 hrs.

 

It's rare to find any inspections that are off timed from 10, 100, or 1,000 hours. There's some 2k, 5k, and 10k inspections in aircraft, but generally it's all divisible by that 100 hour mark.

 

Personally, seeing 100 hour, or lack of, inspections within a logbook won't really bother me when buying an airplane, by itself. It's consistency of oil changes, thoroughness of maintenance entries (too much info is as bad as too little! I don't need to know how much every single little bolt is torqued, just tell me what you were trying to replace or repair, and what instructions you followed), if there are any large gaps in annual inspections and how long ago those gaps occured, and how the owner carries themselves, as well as the reason for selling. And of course, when the last inspection was done .

 

All that said, since I rent my plane, I prefer to follow 100 hour inspections for liability concerns. I've heard about rotax and FD standing behind their products too, but I'm on the fence about doing 100 hrs all the time if it was for my own use only, as the cost of all those inspections would probably exceed any discounts.

[Roger Lee]

And hear I though I was going to save this sermon for Sunday.

 

This is for everyone not just you. It's a lifetime philosophy.

 

I do early inspections all the time. All of my clients want top level maint. and don't expect average. If they get to 100 hrs. first before the annual they come and and we do both inspections. If they get to the annual first then we do both and rest both time tables. There are difference between an annual and a 100 hr. I do them all every time. I takes little time more to be complete and 100% over a lack luster inspection. I have seen to many and questioned previous mechanics that can't tell me what the inspection they did really included even after 30 days. Imagine what these people will be like in court or answering to the FAA or an insurance company.

 

It is usually just as easy to to the right thing and many times cheaper in the long run.

 

You are a perfect example with the first hose change. Why except average, it cost you twice as much doing it twice and almost an engine out over nasty terrain. Nobody is ever 100% perfect over their career and I'm not even eluding that I am, but doing things the right way can go a long way.

 

As far as warranty. I lost an engine. Rotax stepped up and paid for that solely from my detailed logbook after 6 years. Don't fool yourself into thinking your done with that.

 

What about your prop kick back issue that ruined the starter sprag clutch. An informed person would have known this was no good and would destroy the clutch and any good mechanic should have caught this early on with a maint. inspection which should have included getting a history from the owner and starting the aircraft a couple of times himself. Both early interventions would have saved yo a couple thousand dollars. I have helped 6-7 others get help well past warranty times. Lack of education in information has bit many people in the butt and all they ever says is "I didn't know that" or they would have done things differently.

 

 

"If there is no difference between the 2 inspections including the 100 hour every year in writing it is just words, no actual additional inspection.  Silly."

 

Read the manuals cover to cover and go to a few classes and I doubt you would feel the same. When I get calls every day about problems owner caused and the tons of money it takes tho fix all these, that was silly for not doing the proper maint. Almost all could have been prevented by the right maint. done on time and they would have found issues early on or prevented themselves from doing silly things. I do this every day for a living and see 30+ Rotax and LSA a year and talk to hundreds of people with problems every year so I get  unique fully informed and realistic view of ongoing issues.

 

"Roger, you say don't worry about the timing which means to me, don't do and early or additional inspection just make sure you add some words when you do your annual and you wouldn't buy a plane that didn't do this?  I can't see what difference it makes"

 

We are only talking about a few hours delay not eliminating the inspection.

 

 

I don't proclaim to know everything, but maybe a tad more than some new people, but when I get stumped and I go to Rotax for help and I listened because they know more than I do and going against solid proven advise isn't in my or my clients best interest.

 

I just don't get why so many have an aversion from keeping themselves and passengers as safe as possible with good maint. Things will always go wrong because they are man made, but why add to the odds. The normal answer whether people will admit it or not is money, but people hide behind all kinds of excuses. If money was no object then they would want the best.

 

Let's use this example. The gentleman that just went down in TX. The real cause is um-important for this example. Let's say he is on his way into that field again. Let's say he refused to pay $200 to have something done at an inspection and that is now the problem. Do you think he would now pay the $200 if he could go back in time and fly and land at his destination without incident.? I bet he would.

How about you when your engine started acting up over the Sierra's and then had to have the work re-done. It may have paid up front to have someone with experience do it in the first place.

 

My point is not to needle you, but show sometimes it's better to seek out experience, listen to other with that experience or pay the couple extra dollars up front and not pay the hard way.

 

Do the inspections and do them on time and the right way. It could be your own hide you save. Money is just money it can be replaced, but your's or your passengers health and life may not be so easily fixed.

[Anticept]

What checklist do you use for your annual?

 

Also, why does rotax have the compression check listed as "perform every 200 hours" when 43 app D (d)(3) clearly states that 100 hr inspections (not sure how annual condition inspections and app D relate, but imagine it's still the basis just like annuals) must include a cylinder compression check? Of all the checks performed on engines, that's one of the most important ones...

[Roger Lee]

The compression test at 200 hrs. is brand new since the last revision. Time and experience has shown compression is usually not an issue as often as an air cooled engine or or someone using 100LL full time. I do a compression test every inspection and log the results. It will show trends and you are less likely to actually miss something for early intervention. A differential compression test only takes me about 15 min. so why skip it. These are minimum standards and doesn't prevent anyone from doing more.

Like I said in another post, why be average when excellence is only a few minutes longer and if and when you find something early on you can ride your white horse in to save the day for the customer so he doesn't have to spend big bucks later.

 

Personally for me it makes me feel good to help my clients. I know it must be a defective gene. 

[Anticept]

It's not new. I have an '07 912uls manual laying around that says the same thing. .

 

Again, what annual checklist do you use?

 

Also, as a counter point to what you said above: there's a point where you are being safe, then there's such a thing as just being sheltered. The latter is what led the FAA to being such a massive beauracracy. Money is the largest factor and I'm usually more annoyed than not at some people's maintenance practices, but I still think that 100 hr inspections for private use might be a little overkill as long as the owner takes care of the plane. To each our own!

[Roger Lee]

The newest one which can be downloaded from this site:

 

http://www.flyrotax.com/desktopdefault.aspx

 

This is the main Rotax website which will always have the most current manuals and bulletins. Go to tech support and list engine type. You can further limit a search by adding manuals or bulletins from the drop down menu.

 

Download the current Line Maint. Manual.

Print out the maint. check list and use this every time. I use this every time and sign off every item and give this to my clients plus one for the fuselage. 

[Anticept]

I have that one. It's just that I found my old one lying around and was curious if it was always that way

[Doug G.]

I always begin an annual at the end of the month, so it gets signed off in the following month.

 

Gradually working my way to spring, so it isn't so freakin' COLD when mine is due.

 

Last one begun at the end of Feb, signed off in mid-March and not due again until 3/31/15!

I did the opposite with mine. It was originally July, but I backed it up to June, so it isn't so freaking HOT when mine is due.

[FredG]

"As far as warranty. I lost an engine. Rotax stepped up and paid for that solely from my detailed logbook after 6 years. Don't fool yourself into thinking your done with that."  

 

​Roger, I suspect that your experience with Rotax might be different than the experience of those who are not as connected and who are not as visible to the LSA community.  Yes, I am well aware of Rotax providing some assistance to owners with out of warranty engines.  Still, I would bet that you get faster service from Rotax than the average owner.  

[Roger Lee]

I don't think I'm more connected as informed. I knew what form to fill out, where to send it and knew right up front that logbook detail is everything. Then if you let people sit they will sit because it isn't their problem so you have to bulldog them to keep them on track and moving.

All this said it is out there on the Rotax forum and on their website for anyone to read. Rotax classes are absolutely a great help for information in one place instead of searching the web. Then I advise people to talk to someone with more experience. This can save months worth of time. For instance if you use the SIR from the Rotax-Owner.com site and fill it out and send it electronically it takes a round about trip through Rotech in Canada and may take a couple of months. If you send it like you are supposed to through Rotax Flying and Safety Club then it is in the hands of the people who do the warranty claims for Rotax right then and there.

Then people don't fill in all the blanks. It tells you not to leave anything blank. Then I have had several who send the form in without a complete copy of their logbook which states right on there to send that too.

 

The information is out there it's just people don't bother to get informed and follow through.

 

As far as my issue went I sent it in complete, to the right place and from  the phone call I received they stated it was one of the most detailed logbooks they had seen in a long time and from that alone granted help in a very fast manor warranty.

 

This is why I preach so hard to get others on the same track. It absolutely can't hurt, you have nothing to lose  and it helps in so many different arenas by keeping a good detailed logbook. Shortcuts only help when chopping wood not on our aircraft.