TheRaven Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 So here's the deal: I'm a low-time (124 hours) sport pilot (flying a CTLS) who would like to obtain an endorsement to operate in Class C airspace. I'm not planning to regularly fly to Class C airports, and in fact this might be a one-shot deal. It's just that I think it would be a good endorsement to have, and might help me if I ever want to transition through Class C airspace on my way to other destinations. I raised this subject with the flight instructor I used to obtain my SP certificate. He seemed eager to fly with me and do it. Another flight instructor who overhead us seemed to think we were crazy. So I was just curious about others' experience flying to Class C airports in LSA. Do you generally get a clearance to land, or do they just laugh at you? The airport I'm hoping to land at is KBDL. We would be flying there on a Friday afternoon, which, based on my listening to liveatc.net, is a relatively slow time. Any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 It's good to have to be able to fly through the airspace, but personally I personally would not try to land at a Class B (even if they would let me) or Class C. There are usually enough smaller airports around them to use. It's also a safety issue; those bigger airports have a lot of larger airplanes flying to/from them, and their wake turbulence can literally destroy a plane as small as a CT. Just IMO, YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 I have never been laughed at or refused a clearance to land. I use 4 Class C airports but avoid others in favor of more convenient satellite airports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaven Posted May 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 It's good to have to be able to fly through the airspace, but personally I personally would not try to land at a Class B (even if they would let me) or Class C. There are usually enough smaller airports around them to use. It's also a safety issue; those bigger airports have a lot of larger airplanes flying to/from them, and their wake turbulence can literally destroy a plane as small as a CT. Just IMO, YMMV. The wake turbulence issue was cited by the CFI who said we were crazy to consider landing at Bradley, but as my CFI pointed out, he wouldn't want to encounter wake turbulence from a 737 in a Piper Warrior either, yet the idea of such a flight seems less crazy than in an LSA, for some reason. And listening to liveatc.net, I heard Cessna 172s landing at Bradley without any problem. The controllers, in fact, didn't act like it was anything out of the ordinary to have them land. So how would one get an endorsement to fly through Class C airspace without actually landing at an airport within the airspace? And I definitely would never even dream of landing at a Class B!!! In fact, I think LSAs are prohibited from most Class B airports, if I'm not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Out west of Mississippi it is not uncommon for a Class C airport to be the only practical airport in the given area. Abilene, Lubbock and San Antonio come to mind. I've had no issues flying my LSA into the primary airport in a Class C. Most have size able GA traffic as well so they're used to it. Just be prepared to enter a squawk code and follow instructions (turn left to ABC and descend to XYZ altitude). No big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaven Posted May 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 I have never been laughed at or refused a clearance to land. I use 4 Class C airports but avoid others in favor of more convenient satellite airports. That's good to hear! Again, this is purely for training/endorsement purposes, so it might be my one and only trip to a Class C airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaven Posted May 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Out west of Mississippi it is not uncommon for a Class C airport to be the only practical airport in the given area. Abilene, Lubbock and San Antonio come to mind. I've had no issues flying my LSA into the primary airport in a Class C. Most have size able GA traffic as well so they're used to it. Just be prepared to enter a squawk code and follow instructions (turn left to ABC and descend to XYZ altitude). No big deal. Thanks! I've been listening to ATC a lot in preparation. I know it's important to sound like you know what you're doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 I carried 'scripts' for years that had sample dialogs with the various types of controllers (clearance, center, approach, ground, radio, flight watch, etc). Didn't recall actually using them but the act of writing them down helped to imprint them. Became less necessary once I got my instrument ticket and flew in the system almost all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaven Posted May 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 I carried 'scripts' for years that had sample dialogs with the various types of controllers (clearance, center, approach, ground, radio, flight watch, etc). Didn't recall actually using them but the act of writing them down helped to imprint them. Became less necessary once I got my instrument ticket and flew in the system almost all the time. Yeah, I've seen some of those, and they're helpful. I do have experience getting flight following, and my first 42 hours of training were spent at Class D airports, so it's not that I'm unused to talking to ATC. It's just the idea of sharing space with the "big boys" (though not all that big at Bradley) that scares me a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Out west of Mississippi it is not uncommon for a Class C airport to be the only practical airport in the given area. That's a really good point I had not considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Jason Schappert does a nice job with a series of short, free videos on VFR communciations. This one is for a Class B departure. http://www.m0a.com/class-bravo-airspace-departure/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Just yesterday I flew Karen up to Knoxville. Though Downtown Island Home is more picturesque, McGhee Tyson is usually more convenient, so that's where we most often end up. Class C is pretty simple once you've done it a few times, and no reason to avoid those airports automatically. Just review when big planes start and stop generating wake turbulence, how it propagates and if in doubt, wait it out! Still, smaller non-towered airports are usually my first choice flying cross county. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaven Posted May 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Jason Schappert does a nice job with a series of short, free videos on VFR communciations. This one is for a Class B departure. http://www.m0a.com/class-bravo-airspace-departure/ Thanks, I'll check it out later. Unfortunately I have to leave for work now. But I've always liked Jason's videos. Such enthusiasm and passion for teaching! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 I know a Sport pilot who flies a no electric Taylorcraft out of a class "C" airport, because he is based there. He has no mode "C" transponder, and uses a hand held radio. It is really not a big deal, not all class "C" airports have big heavy traffic all the time. In fact most that I have been to put light aircraft and heavies on different runways. I have been in and out of several different class "C" airports with my CTLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 On the sectional, it says "CTC KNOXVILLE APP WITHIN 20NM ON 123.9". After getting ATIS, here's my initial call:"Knoxville Approach, Experimental Sky Arrow 467SA 22nm south, 3,500, landing McGhee Tyson with Bravo."They came back with a transponder code, then a few vectors for spacing, then lined me up with 5R and had me contact the tower, who approved a long landing to get me closer to TAC Air.Not a big deal, really not much different from any other towered airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 We land at KCMH (port columbus class C) for practice when they aren't busy. Civil Airports are NOT allowed to turn away any aircraft if they are able to accommodate. They will also account for your airspeed, and will vector you into the approach pattern so you do not interfere with operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 I trained for my Sport Pilot certificate at a Class C airport (KCID, Cedar Rapids, Iowa). I think the Class C endorsement is useful. Cedar Rapids has regular commercial regional jet traffic, but there is plenty of time for GA aircraft, including LSA, to get in and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2FlyAgain Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Granted this doesn't rise to level of concern generated by wake turbulence from B757. But, you may want to check that your transponder certification is current before entering the Class C airspace just to be thorough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Food for thought, many class C aitports might like having the extra traffic to keep their numbers up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaven Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thanks, everyone, for all your comments and suggestions. I'll let you know later how it went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityKnight Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 The planes I rent are all housed on a class C airport. It's really not as intimidating as it sounds once you go in and out of one a few times. KCOS is also shared with an air force base so often times I am dodging c130's (literally ) and other interesting things (Osprey's, fighters etc.) It's actually nice to have ATC looking out for you... though you don't want to completely rely on that as I have found (we humans do make mistakes now and then). Dealing with ATC, and headings and landing etc. at a class C is straightforward, honestly taxing and finding your way around on the ground at a busy/large class C you aren't familiar is the hard part IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunny Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 I fly into both KJAX and KSAV, class C, often without any problems. Controllers have always been professional. One Sunday morning going into KSAV, approach gave me a long direct in to runway 10 as I was coming from the west. This is not normal. I noticed coming down the taxiway, towards me, was a Delta 717-200. As I crossed the numbers someone came on the radio and said "little fellow can you hurry it up, we have 100 people on board who want to get home". I obliged and made the first turn off quickly, at which time the voice came on again and said "gee you move quickly for such a small guy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 . . . . . "As I crossed the numbers someone came on the radio and said "little fellow can you hurry it up, we have 100 people on board who want to get home". I obliged and made the first turn off quickly, at which time the voice came on again and said "gee you move quickly for such a small guy". " . . . . .How unprofessional.99.9% of the Delta pilots I know would have never said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Since I live in Houston, I routinely operate in Class B, C, and D airspace frequently. No problems at all. As a point of clarification, Light Sport is prohibited from operating only in some of the larger Class B airports and that list is found in Appendix D to Part 91. It says: 4. Locations at which solo student, sport, and recreational pilot activity is not permitted. Pursuant to §91.131((2), solo student, sport, and recreational pilot operations are not permitted at any of the following airports. Atlanta, GA (The William B. Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport)Boston, MA (General Edward Lawrence Logan International Airport) Chicago, IL (Chicago-O’Hare International Airport) Dallas, TX (Dallas/Fort Worth Regional Airport) Los Angeles, CA (Los Angeles International Airport) Miami, FL (Miami International Airport) Newark, NJ (Newark International Airport) New York, NY (John F. Kennedy International Airport) New York, NY (LaGuardia Airport) San Francisco, CA (San Francisco International Airport) Washington, DC (Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport and Andrews Air Force Base, MD) You can operate with a Sport Pilot certificate with the proper training and endorsement or as a Sport Pilot using your Private Pilot or higher certificate at any other Class B airport not in the above list. In Houston, I can operate as a Sport Pilot at Hobby (KHOU) or Bush Intercontinental (KIAH). Frankly, while wake turbulence is an issue when operating around much heavier, I worry more about getting inadvertantly blown around or upside down on the ground when operating around jets or heavy helicopters. I operate out of Class C and D airports all the time but only go into B when I really need to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 I don't plan on going to any of those airports, but... ...I wonder if, as a Commercial Pilot, but operating sans medical under Sport Pilot rules, I legally could. IOW, a Commercial certificate is issued without an expiration, so it's still valid. But the "sport pilot operations" language seems like a gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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