Delivery delay and delivery problems

[RAMSES]

FD situation is not new. Many European customers speak about delivery problems on this forum for many years.

The European law is probably different of the US law.

When a company can not pay, it is put into liquidation on request the commercial court, and all his clients lose money and orders.

The tax administration is a priority for his money, employees are in second place, followed by suppliers and customers. All this of course if there is money or marketable materials.

But FD own nothing!

A Kamenz, they rent half of a hangar where it happens nothing : this hangar is empty!.

In Kherson in Ukraine, there is uniquely trade agreements with a contractor and there are no real problems in Ukraine, and there never has been to Kherson. I was still a tourist visit to Ukraine in September 2015.

Ukraine currently built only 1 or 2 CTLS per month for delivery to South Korean customers. The salaries of his workers is about 250USD per month, and it seems that salaries are not paid regularly.

The repurchase by a Chinese company is not done, and FD is currently in talks with a Taiwanese company, but nothing is signed.

FD swindled dealers and European clients for years. It is now the turn of the USA.

You are much more numerous than Europeans, and you have the resources to react.

FD is crazy to think that may exceed CESSNA which is the world market leader. They do not have a penny to do (except the money they stole to their customers), and believe you really think the Chinese will buy an empty shell? It's better for them to copy the patents of a company that has not a penny for defense.

[DECZR]

Perfect true Ramses, I'm one of the European client which paid in June 2013 for a CTLS and I canceled the contract in April 2015.

I didn't get money back and I'm in a trail now with FD in Germany.

I'm not a specialist but I ask my self what's happen with the certification from FAA and EASA for CTLS.

Let's say FD will bankrupt and the company will be closed. AirJones should sale LSA in USA without a certification from FD?

[RAMSES]

FD are real bandits. For years they require customers to pay in full the planes after the announcement of the start of construction. They give the customer a serial number for the aircraft and a delivery date, but they do not deliver the aircraft. How is it called?

They transferred their headquarters from Echterdingen (near Stuttgart) to Kamenz (former East Germany) to reach the German state subsidies. But no jobs were created in Kamenz and no production was carried out in the half hangar they rent.

Instead of building in Germany, they have outsourced the production of CT in Ukraine. My CT delivered in February 2014 (with very high pressures) showed very significant defects on the structure and engine mounting.

I nearly killed myself several times.

Now they delay the deadline of bankruptcy with repurchase promise.

But I ask you again: would you buy a company with huge debts? Would you build  over a hundred aircrafts were not delivered but which have been paid? Would you buy a company that has a brand image so degraded?

Not me. Not even for one dollar.

It would buy an empty coffin with huge debts and very important business commitments to assume.

A final question: the real FD headquarters is it in Germany or Ukraine now?

There is nothing more in Kamenz: not an employee nor a spare part...

It is now up to you to conclude.

[DECZR]

I have been in Echterdingen and they have had 3 containers like a building office.

I rely don't understand the policy of FD.

They made a good airplane, they developed a good project and they hope in a financial miracle instead to make a realistic business plan and not to stole, as Ramses said, money from the clients.

Now I became a sort of investor in FD, even I didn't ask to be  

[IrishAl]

Ramses.

I also am very unhappy with the way they are conducting business - I don't think the public should accept such actions.

 

Can you give us more details of what you are saying?

 

My CT delivered in February 2014 (with very high pressures) showed very significant defects on the structure and engine mounting.

I nearly killed myself several times.

Photos?  Details?

 

Would you build  over a hundred aircrafts were not delivered but which have been paid? 

Do you know how many aircraft have been paid for but not delivered?

 

 

[IrishAl]

 

Would you buy a company that has a brand image so degraded?

Unfortunately, the public forgets very quickly.  When the dust settles, people will keep on buying from a company that has acted fraudulently, and nobody will give a second thought to people who have been mistreated or who have lost a lot of money paid in good faith.

 

 

A final question: the real FD headquarters is it in Germany or Ukraine now?

 

Tai from AeroJones will be able to answer your question.  On another thread, he says:

However at this right moment, AeroJones is trying to help Flight Design to keep his core capability in order to push C4 forwards.

Why don't you ask him?

[MIK]

NEWS

 

In dem Insolvenzverfahren über das Vermögen der Flight - Design - GmbH Flugsportgeräte, vertreten durch die Geschäftsführer Herrn Matthias Betsch, Herrn Daniel Günther und Herrn Christian Wenger, Schmiedestraße 2, 15745 Wildau, (Registergericht: Dresden HRB 32961), Verfahrensbevollmächtigte: Rechtsanwälte Andreas Wähnert, Friedrichstraße 204, 10117 Berlin,ist heute, am 15.02.2016, um 12.50 Uhr Rechtsanwalt Knut Rebholz,Gerichtsplatz 7, 03046 Cottbus, zum vorläufigen Insolvenzverwalter bestellt worden und ein Zustimmungsvorbehalt angeordnet worden (§§ 21 Abs. 2 Nr. 2, 22 InsO).Rechtsmittelbelehrung:Gegen diesen Beschluss ist die sofortige Beschwerde gem. § 4 InsO, § 569 ZPO binnen einer Notfrist von zwei Wochen zulässig. Die Notfrist beginnt spätestens zwei Tage nach der unter www.insolvenzbekanntmachungen.de erfolgten öffentlichen Bekanntmachung. Bei einer früheren Zustellung ist dieser Zeitpunkt maßgebend für den Beginn der Beschwerdefrist. Die Beschwerde ist bei dem Amtsgericht Cottbus, Gerichtsplatz 2, 03046 Cottbus, oder bei Verfahren, die vor dem 01.03.2012 beantragt worden sind, auch beim Landgericht Cottbus, Gerichtsstraße 3-4, 03046 Cottbus, einzulegen. Die Beschwerdeschrift muss die Bezeichnung der angefochtenen Entscheidung sowie die Erklärung enthalten, dass Beschwerde gegen diese Entscheidung eingelegt werde. Die sofortige Beschwerde kann schriftlich, durch Erklärung zu Protokoll der Geschäftsstelle oder in elektronischer Form mit einer qualifizierten elektronischen Signatur eingelegt werden (für Einzelheiten: www.erv.brandenburg.de) Amtsgericht Cottbus, 15.02.2016, 63 IN 73/16

[MIK]

NEWS

 

In dem Insolvenzverfahren über das Vermögen der Flight - Design - GmbH Flugsportgeräte, vertreten durch die Geschäftsführer Herrn Matthias Betsch, Herrn Daniel Günther und Herrn Christian Wenger, Schmiedestraße 2, 15745 Wildau, (Registergericht: Dresden HRB 32961), Verfahrensbevollmächtigte: Rechtsanwälte Andreas Wähnert, Friedrichstraße 204, 10117 Berlin,ist heute, am 15.02.2016, um 12.50 Uhr Rechtsanwalt Knut Rebholz,Gerichtsplatz 7, 03046 Cottbus, zum vorläufigen Insolvenzverwalter bestellt worden und ein Zustimmungsvorbehalt angeordnet worden (§§ 21 Abs. 2 Nr. 2, 22 InsO).Rechtsmittelbelehrung:Gegen diesen Beschluss ist die sofortige Beschwerde gem. § 4 InsO, § 569 ZPO binnen einer Notfrist von zwei Wochen zulässig. Die Notfrist beginnt spätestens zwei Tage nach der unter www.insolvenzbekanntmachungen.de erfolgten öffentlichen Bekanntmachung. Bei einer früheren Zustellung ist dieser Zeitpunkt maßgebend für den Beginn der Beschwerdefrist. Die Beschwerde ist bei dem Amtsgericht Cottbus, Gerichtsplatz 2, 03046 Cottbus, oder bei Verfahren, die vor dem 01.03.2012 beantragt worden sind, auch beim Landgericht Cottbus, Gerichtsstraße 3-4, 03046 Cottbus, einzulegen. Die Beschwerdeschrift muss die Bezeichnung der angefochtenen Entscheidung sowie die Erklärung enthalten, dass Beschwerde gegen diese Entscheidung eingelegt werde. Die sofortige Beschwerde kann schriftlich, durch Erklärung zu Protokoll der Geschäftsstelle oder in elektronischer Form mit einer qualifizierten elektronischen Signatur eingelegt werden (für Einzelheiten: www.erv.brandenburg.de) Amtsgericht Cottbus, 15.02.2016, 63 IN 73/16

 

They are done!!

[DECZR]

That is!

I and my lawyers frozen the accounts from two weeks ago and we waited the court decision for garnishment.

Too late...

[FastEddieB]

Google Translate:

 

In the insolvency proceedings over the assets of Flight - Design - GmbH Flugsportgeräte, represented by the managing director Mr. Matthias Betsch, Mr Daniel Gunther and Mr Christian Wenger, Schmiedestraße 2, 15745 Wildau, (Register Court: Dresden HRB 32961), processes represented by Andreas Wähnert, Friedrichstrasse 204, 10117 Berlin §§ 2 2, 22, today, 12:50 attorney Knut Rebholz, court No. 7, 03046 Cottbus, was appointed a provisional administrator and an agreement conditional been placed on 02.15.2016, at (21 para. no. InsO ) .Rechtsmittelbelehrung: against this decision may be appealed immediately gem. § 4 InsO, § 569 ZPO permitted within a statutory period of two weeks. The statutory period begins two days after were done under www.insolvenzbekanntmachungen.de public notice at the latest. In an earlier notification of this date is decisive for the start of the appeal period. The complaint is at the Amtsgericht Cottbus, Court Square 2, 03046 Cottbus, or procedures that have been applied for before 01.03.2012, also at the District Court Cottbus, Court Street 3-4, 03046 Cottbus insert. The notice of appeal must include the name of the contested decision and the statement contained in that appeal was lodged against this decision. The immediate appeal can writing be lodged by way of declaration to the protocol office or in electronic form with a qualified electronic signature (for details: www.erv.brandenburg.de) Amtsgericht Cottbus, 02/15/2016, 63 IN 73/16

 

 

In the insolvency proceedings over the assets of Flight - Design - GmbH Flugsportgeräte, represented by the managing director Mr. Matthias Betsch, Mr Daniel Gunther and Mr Christian Wenger, Schmiedestraße 2, 15745 Wildau, (Register Court: Dresden HRB 32961), processes represented by Andreas Wähnert, Friedrichstrasse 204, 10117 Berlin §§ 2 2, 22, today, 12:50 attorney Knut Rebholz, court No. 7, 03046 Cottbus, was appointed a provisional administrator and an agreement conditional been placed on 02.15.2016, at (21 para. no. InsO ) .Rechtsmittelbelehrung: against this decision may be appealed immediately gem. § 4 InsO, § 569 ZPO permitted within a statutory period of two weeks. The statutory period begins two days after were done under www.insolvenzbekanntmachungen.de public notice at the latest. In an earlier notification of this date is decisive for the start of the appeal period. The complaint is at the Amtsgericht Cottbus, Court Square 2, 03046 Cottbus, or procedures that have been applied for before 01.03.2012, also at the District Court Cottbus, Court Street 3-4, 03046 Cottbus insert. The notice of appeal must include the name of the contested decision and the statement contained in that appeal was lodged against this decision. The immediate appeal can writing be lodged by way of declaration to the protocol office or in electronic form with a qualified electronic signature (for details: www.erv.brandenburg.de) Amtsgericht Cottbus, 02/15/2016, 63 IN 73/16

 

 

 

In the insolvency proceedings over the assets of Flight - Design - GmbH Flugsportgeräte, represented by the managing director Mr. Matthias Betsch, Mr Daniel Gunther and Mr Christian Wenger, Schmiedestraße 2, 15745 Wildau, (Register Court: Dresden HRB 32961), processes represented by Andreas Wähnert, Friedrichstrasse 204, 10117 Berlin §§ 2 2, 22, today, 12:50 attorney Knut Rebholz, court No. 7, 03046 Cottbus, was appointed a provisional administrator and an agreement conditional been placed on 02.15.2016, at (21 para. no. InsO ) .Rechtsmittelbelehrung: against this decision may be appealed immediately gem. § 4 InsO, § 569 ZPO permitted within a statutory period of two weeks. The statutory period begins two days after were done under www.insolvenzbekanntmachungen.de public notice at the latest. In an earlier notification of this date is decisive for the start of the appeal period. The complaint is at the Amtsgericht Cottbus, Court Square 2, 03046 Cottbus, or procedures that have been applied for before 01.03.2012, also at the District Court Cottbus, Court Street 3-4, 03046 Cottbus insert. The notice of appeal must include the name of the contested decision and the statement contained in that appeal was lodged against this decision. The immediate appeal can writing be lodged by way of declaration to the protocol office or in electronic form with a qualified electronic signature (for details: www.erv.brandenburg.de) Amtsgericht Cottbus, 02/15/2016, 63 IN 73/16

 

 

In the insolvency proceedings over the assets of Flight - Design - GmbH Flugsportgeräte, represented by the managing director Mr. Matthias Betsch, Mr Daniel Gunther and Mr Christian Wenger, Schmiedestraße 2, 15745 Wildau, (Register Court: Dresden HRB 32961), processes represented by Andreas Wähnert, Friedrichstrasse 204, 10117 Berlin §§ 2 2, 22, today, 12:50 attorney Knut Rebholz, court No. 7, 03046 Cottbus, was appointed a provisional administrator and an agreement conditional been placed on 02.15.2016, at (21 para. no. InsO ) .Rechtsmittelbelehrung: against this decision may be appealed immediately gem. § 4 InsO, § 569 ZPO permitted within a statutory period of two weeks. The statutory period begins two days after were done under www.insolvenzbekanntmachungen.de public notice at the latest. In an earlier notification of this date is decisive for the start of the appeal period. The complaint is at the Amtsgericht Cottbus, Court Square 2, 03046 Cottbus, or procedures that have been applied for before 01.03.2012, also at the District Court Cottbus, Court Street 3-4, 03046 Cottbus insert. The notice of appeal must include the name of the contested decision and the statement contained in that appeal was lodged against this decision. The immediate appeal can writing be lodged by way of declaration to the protocol office or in electronic form with a qualified electronic signature (for details: www.erv.brandenburg.de) Amtsgericht Cottbus, 02/15/2016, 63 IN 73/16

 

[RAMSES]

Due to European legislation, the FD company will probably stop and any vendor, or any customer will not be compensated, since FD has no property.

The process used by managers is reprehensible before a criminal court.

If admitted they committed these malversions knowingly, they will be responsible on their own properties. In my view, this is not even debatable.

Their properties (houses, cars, bank accounts ...) will be seized to compensate creditors.

I think you have immediately to orient yourself to this procedure. This is the only way to get something.

These managers are bandits and they do not deserve to continue to live in opulence after ruining their clients.

[RAMSES]

Legally, you signed a contract with the reseller FD of your country, and it is to him you have paid your money for an aircraft.

It is your reseller who must assume the contract and it is against him you should return to be refund.

If ever the reseller wishes to pursue legal action against FD is his problem, not yours.

I hope that your dealers are financially strong and well insured.

[DECZR]

I signed direct with FD the contract and I started the legal action against the company.

We was in the stage of frozen accounts and waiting the court decision for garnishment.

This should be the reason they asked insolvency 

[CT4ME]

There is finally some news coverage of the situation... a good article from ByDanJohnson.com .  Far from being Gloom & Doom, they've announced a new model, the CTLSi 2020 !!!   

[RAMSES]

I consider this newspaper article as advertising by the President of Flight Design USA to reassure customers ("asked my partner if I am a thief ...").

Remember the special 25th Anniversary Edition series with the Jubilee!

How many customers are not yet delivered their CTLSi Jubilee?

I would have preferred that President FD USA explains when, how and with what resources FD will produce and deliver all CTLS which were paid for a long time and not delivered before always announcing new projects.

I'm sorry, but I want to stay in reality, not in dreams and false promises.

[Roger Lee]

FD USA isn't FD Germany and can't answer for them. He can only answer for what is under his direct control. He's just a dealer like many others in the world.

[RAMSES]

You are right and I agree: it's just a dealer who defends his business, not the manufacturer, alas!

[Tom Baker]

 

I consider this newspaper article as advertising by the President of Flight Design USA to reassure customers ("asked my partner if I am a thief ...").

Remember the special 25th Anniversary Edition series with the Jubilee!

How many customers are not yet delivered their CTLSi Jubilee?

I would have preferred that President FD USA explains when, how and with what resources FD will produce and deliver all CTLS which were paid for a long time and not delivered before always announcing new projects.

I'm sorry, but I want to stay in reality, not in dreams and false promises.

 

 

Flight Design USA is the US importer of Flight Design aircraft, and the US point of contact for all US Ct's. They are also the distributor for the Northeastern US. They are just like the rest of you who placed orders for a completed airplane that wasn't delivered, except in their case it was more than one airplane. They were however able to get the un-completed airplanes and finish completion here in the states paying the additional cost to replace the equipment that had already been paid for. This was to take care of their customers at FD USA's expense.

[ralarcon]

"I would have preferred that President FD USA explains when, how and with what resources FD will produce and deliver all CTLS which were paid for a long time and not delivered before always announcing new projects.

I'm sorry, but I want to stay in reality, not in dreams and false promises."

 

My brother's airplane was promised and delivered appropriately. Parts on the repairs of my own aircraft were promised and delivered appropriately. That is the reality here in the US. The unfortunate events in Europe, are not the responsibility of FD USA. FD USA has been admirable in their response to their customers. To accuse FD USA "with dreams  and false promises" is at least inaccurate and at most slanderous. and it needs to stop.

 

Cheers

[RAMSES]

Thank you for explanations. It is not at all the same thing in Europe.

A precision : I never accused the president of FD USA. My accusations were against FD Germany.

I assume them and I maintain my words against FD Germany because I was a victim (like many other customers) their false promises.

You're very lucky to have a strong and responsible importer. We would like to say the same.

[CT4ME]

It is very unfortunate that you were caught up in this drama.  For what it's worth, I know members of this forum were shocked when we heard such practices were going on, and several have talked with FD USA to see if any pressure could be applied to help the situation.  With the economy and market changes in aviation and LSA, FD USA's plate has been pretty full just keeping their own business afloat.  They also weathered a nasty lawsuit and PR blackmail scheme from nutcase lawyer.  

 

It's hard to imagine the same situation happening here.  The community of aviators communicate a lot, on forums like ours, or social media.  Someone would smell a rat and expose it quickly.  And we're taught here in the States to beware of any deal that requires "money in advance".  Partial payments, with a significant amount paid on delivery is the norm.

 

We feel your pain, and would much rather be discussing (with you) the joys of flying/owning a CT... and arguing over the aesthetics of power and torque or crosswind landing techniques!!! 

 

PS...  We have to remember that the CT World doesn't revolve around us... only a 1/4 of all CTs are in the States, and only a handful of our members are from outside the US.  There's a lot out there we just don't know.