Ian Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Glad that we loudmouth Americans could help, just by being ourselves! You mean you haven't read The Quiet American by Graham Green? I thoroughly recommend it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuco Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 You mean you haven't read The Quiet American by Graham Green? I thoroughly recommend it I didn't read it... But as I can see... he was the only one...no? LOL!!! Many thanks!!!!!! And the English Channel - lol!! Glad to hear you are making progress Of course, many thanks also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 You mean you haven't read The Quiet American by Graham Green? I thoroughly recommend it Sounds like a work of total fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSES Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Hello everyone, I'm new on the forum and I'm French. I also had delivery problems on my CTLS with serious manufacturing defects that could cost me the life many times. My plane is returned to the factory. I know many people in Europe who have delays in delivery that can go up to 18 months while their plane is fully paid for a long time. The story of Manuco does not surprise me. If I told you my full story, you say it is incredible! I can only advise you to be very careful and check everything upon delivery of your aircraft, because FD lacks rigor for reasons unknown to me. Is this specific to the European market? I don't know. Good flights and congratulations for your website on the CT that the whole world seems to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Hi Ramses, welcome to the forum and you have my sympathies for your experiences with FD. Whereabouts in France are you based? I have a maison secondaire près d'Angoulême and although I usually travel by Ryanair I will probably get at least one flight over in the CT this summer perhaps we might meet up? Salut Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSES Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Hi Ian, I am at La Baule. If ever you come in France with your CT this summer, please inform me. It will be nice to meet you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Dave and crew assembles, inspects, and test flies every CT that enters the united states though FDUSA. It's not 100%, but thanks to that, the QA here in the US is quite high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Hi Ian, I am at La Baule. If ever you come in France with your CT this summer, please inform me. It will be nice to meet you. Will do, my usual stops are Dinard, Caen or Cherbourg then on to Angoulême - Do you have customs at La Baule? If not where is the nearest airfield with customs (although in the many times I've flown into France I've never been challenged for my passport!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DECZR Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Nothing new! I paid in June 2013 for a LSA MC to FD for a plane ready for delivery, a client from Australia gave up to the order. In January 2014 FD informed me, without any explanation or excuse, that they are not able to delivery even in March the plane. I change the order to a CTLS with delivery in June and today I got an answer, without any explanation or excuse, that the delivery will be postpone after 15 July, nobody knows when. I have no idea about the financial situation of the company but I'm feeling is not a god one, other explanation I have not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Nothing new! I paid in June 2013 for a LSA MC to FD for a plane ready for delivery, a client from Australia gave up to the order. In January 2014 FD informed me, without any explanation or excuse, that they are not able to delivery even in March the plane. I change the order to a CTLS with delivery in June and today I got an answer, without any explanation or excuse, that the delivery will be postpone after 15 July, nobody knows when. I have no idea about the financial situation of the company but I'm feeling is not a god one, other explanation I have not. Other explanation: Trouble at the manufacturing plant, due to the Civil War in Ukraine. My information is, FD is opening or has opened facilities in China , Germany, and USA, but the transition does not seem to be going smoothly. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Composites are still a relatively new tech when considering the vast amount of inertia in aviation. It takes a long time to properly train people, and to set up the proper controlled environmental conditions. Cessna had a manufacturing facility where they were building some sort of new composite aircraft. However, the environmental conditions were incorrect, and the planes were coming apart at the end of the production line. They scrapped the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSES Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Due to problems in Ukraine? Certainly not! The areas concerned don’t affect the production unit of FD. If the problem had been there, FD would have informed its customers for many years. I think our money was used to finance the certification of C4. So FD has chosen to bet its current market on the future market, with our money. If what I think is true, it's fraud and deceit. When FD give an undertaking to their customers per contract and when FD knows very well they could not respect it, what is the name of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Due to problems in Ukraine? Certainly not! The areas concerned don’t affect the production unit of FD. If the problem had been there, FD would have informed its customers for many years. I think our money was used to finance the certification of C4. So FD has chosen to bet its current market on the future market, with our money. If what I think is true, it's fraud and deceit. When FD give an undertaking to their customers per contract and when FD knows very well they could not respect it, what is the name of this? If I may make a point, spreading rumor usually causes more problems regardless of circumstances. If it really has annoyed you this badly Ramses, I suggest you should either consider talking to an attorney to get your money back, or simply just chalk it up to "nature of the business". While I love my CTLS to death and respect FD, I would say if you are this annoyed about the situation, you really should consider just getting your money back. If the delivered airplane has problems, it's only going to make you more upset. Vocalizing your disdain "with your wallet" is the very foundation of customer and business relations, and it's a right that people should consider exercising more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Due to problems in Ukraine? Certainly not! The areas concerned don’t affect the production unit of FD. If the problem had been there, FD would have informed its customers for many years. I think our money was used to finance the certification of C4. So FD has chosen to bet its current market on the future market, with our money. If what I think is true, it's fraud and deceit. When FD give an undertaking to their customers per contract and when FD knows very well they could not respect it, what is the name of this? A contract without penalties for failure to deliver is just an unenforceable promise. If you are worried about delivery dates, write into the sales contract that FD will knock $2000 off the price for each month the airplane is late. If they won't sign such a contract, then neither should you if you really need delivery in a specific time frame. Since most FD customers are recreational fliers, late delivery is more an inconvenience and annoyance than a serious issue. If you want an airplane "right now" there are always great CTs for sale in the used market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 ....... If you want an airplane "right now" there are always great CTs for sale in the used market. Very few in Europe - FD have concentrated their efforts on what they clearly see as their most lucrative market, the USA, and have somewhat taken their eye off the ball in the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Very few in Europe - FD have concentrated their efforts on what they clearly see as their most lucrative market, the USA, and have somewhat taken their eye off the ball in the rest of the world. Ah, so that has put the squeeze on the used market as well, as folks can't get new ones for sale easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Due to problems in Ukraine? Certainly not! The areas concerned don’t affect the production unit of FD. If the problem had been there, FD would have informed its customers for many years. I think our money was used to finance the certification of C4. So FD has chosen to bet its current market on the future market, with our money. If what I think is true, it's fraud and deceit. When FD give an undertaking to their customers per contract and when FD knows very well they could not respect it, what is the name of this? Below is a quote from the FD website; "3. Production is performed in Ukraine by a young and highly motivated staff near the Black Sea resort area of the Crimea. Along with the development of the original CT, an R&D and manufacturing company was set up by Flight Design in the Ukraine. Flight Design constantly adopts its production facility and staff competence by means of specific training to meet the growing demand. Ukraine has a strong aviation culture going back to the beginning of manned flight. Major airframe and component manufacturers are sourcing engineering and manufacturing in Ukraineto take advantage of attractive production cost as well as one of the world’s highest engineering educational standards. The production facility is certified by ISO 9001-2008 and also by the Chinese CAAC for producing light sport airplanes. " Well, I believe the Crimea and adjacent areas have experienced military dificulties and I can't imagine the factory not having problems in this environment. Don't think FD could have predicted this years or even months ago. Cheers top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Crimea is not such a "resort" location at the moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Crimea is not such a "resort" location at the moment... Andy, that is the understatement of the year ! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DECZR Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Other explanation: Trouble at the manufacturing plant, due to the Civil War in Ukraine. My information is, FD is opening or has opened facilities in China , Germany, and USA, but the transition does not seem to be going smoothly. Cheers Not at all! It's just a pyramidal game with the end very close... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSES Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Do you know the monthly salary of employees FD in Ukraine? Between 200 and 300 €. No comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Sucks, but average salary in that area is $350-$500 USD, unless you're a corrupt government worker. I've read that people in that area don't get paid vacation, sick leave, or paid holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMSES Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 If "people in this area do not get paid vacation,sick leave, or paid holidays", they can not strike either. How to explain delays delivery of 12 or 18 months? Why FD gives false delivery dates when we order our aircrafts? To get our money they desesparately need? It's cheaper than going to the bank, but the process is dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 If I have to pay 100 percent of the purchase price months or years in advance, I will never buy a new FD. That sounds like they are operating on a shoe string, best case, or a Ponzi scheme, worst case. Does the money go into an escrow account in the US with some sort of reasonable cancellation clause? That's the only way I would consider it. It sounds like the process in Europe is a little different than what it is here. Here if you are the customer you make a deposit on the aircraft when ordered, with the balance due on delivery. At least that is the way I have seen it work in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DECZR Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Nothing new! I paid in June 2013 for a LSA MC to FD for a plane ready for delivery, a client from Australia gave up to the order. In January 2014 FD informed me, without any explanation or excuse, that they are not able to delivery even in March the plane. I change the order to a CTLS with delivery in June and today I got an answer, without any explanation or excuse, that the delivery will be postpone after 15 July, nobody knows when. I have no idea about the financial situation of the company but I'm feeling is not a god one, other explanation I have not. I just got an answer from FD: the delivery was postpone from June to September... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.