gunther Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Hi! I have the same problem with delivery her in Mexico... Ordered my MC in March 2012 and paid the down payment, paid in full in November 2012, and still don´t have the plane... so basically I have been financing whom or whatever in FD for 2 years now, and I am sick and tired of them. I know of one more customer here in Mexico with basically the same problem. Being Austrian myself, I am very surprised to deal with a German company and not getting this done in a timely fashion. E-mails are not replied for weeks on end (all through the FD guy here in Mexico), and when I get one, it is another delay... Any news on the French And Belgian fronts? Greetings to all from lovely Mexico! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctlsjo Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Hi ! I am a french pilot and I bought a CTLS , new in 2010, All was perfect, price, delivery, and she flew perfectly, never problem. When I saw the advertising "Jubilee Edition" , I ordered a new in december 2012. I paid a deposit 30% on 29/12/2012 and 70% in april 2013, it was compulsory for a delivery in june 2013. But I was waiting for, without news many months. The next month, the next month ,????????????????? In june 2014, I flew to Kamenz and I saw my CT, but no engine. Actually, I received my CT in october, OUF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The plate is 13-03-06 and it is the number 7 Jubilee. All is perfect, she fly very well , and burn an average 12/% minus the first CT, an a bit faster , 115 kts and 4.5 gallons at 1500 ft. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Great News... That's perseverance... that paid off. I can't imagine dropping that much $$$ on a promise. Happy Flying! tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Wouldn't it be funny if that is the cause of delays? All the planes sitting there but no engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Wouldn't it be funny if that is the cause of delays? All the planes sitting there but no engine. They are probably waiting on ignition modules. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunther Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Congrats Jo! Still waiting for mine... Hi ! I am a french pilot and I bought a CTLS , new in 2010, All was perfect, price, delivery, and she flew perfectly, never problem. When I saw the advertising "Jubilee Edition" , I ordered a new in december 2012. I paid a deposit 30% on 29/12/2012 and 70% in april 2013, it was compulsory for a delivery in june 2013. But I was waiting for, without news many months. The next month, the next month ,????????????????? In june 2014, I flew to Kamenz and I saw my CT, but no engine. Actually, I received my CT in october, OUF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The plate is 13-03-06 and it is the number 7 Jubilee. All is perfect, she fly very well , and burn an average 12/% minus the first CT, an a bit faster , 115 kts and 4.5 gallons at 1500 ft. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunther Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Actually I heard, that FD isnt/wasnt paying their ROTAX bills... Wouldn't it be funny if that is the cause of delays? All the planes sitting there but no engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 They are probably waiting on ignition modules. . . You beat me to it! Probably my fault... ...for not sending in a CSIR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Actually I heard, that FD isnt/wasnt paying their ROTAX bills... That would be interesting, but hard to believe because rotax only builds prepaid engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuco Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 That would be interesting, but hard to believe because rotax only builds prepaid engines. That's right... Rotax build prepaid engines... as they are not prepaid by FD... they don't build them, the result is the same... FD doesn't have engines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 That's right... Rotax build prepaid engines... as they are not prepaid by FD... they don't build them, the result is the same... FD doesn't have engines! Oh, you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuco Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Oh, you! Hi Anticept, and everybody! I'm quite amazed to see the topic I launched 5 months ago still beeing "hot"... By the way, and as I said in my last post, I finally get everything provided, and the plane fly perfectly, at the end I'm a happy ct flier! But I still hear a lot of delivery problem's by FD, exactly the same story than mine... same questions, same silence from FD... An other thing, I received some months ago a FD proposal to replace my seats by new ones (without charge of course!), I will do that during the winter,... did you heard about it? (I fly a Supralight, so seats haven't got any headrests) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I have zero idea of FD's financial situation - or ROTAX's, for that matter. But as a cautionary tale... Cirrus Aircraft has been phenomenally successful at designing and selling airplanes - that's undisputed. What they have had trouble doing is actually making money at it. You'd imagine that selling planes at the prices they do, profits would be assured. Yet they almost went under until first bailed out by Saudi Arabian capital, and more recently by Chinese capital. There were times their cash flow could not even keep their rent payments to the City of Duluth current. Not sure anyone knows what's going with their profits since the Chinese purchase. NOT saying that FD is in that position - but several of the stories here point to problems that may be financial in nature. If any one has information to the contrary, I'd love to be shown wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 You all know the old joke... "How do you make a small fortune in aviation?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 I have zero idea of FD's financial situation - or ROTAX's, for that matter. But as a cautionary tale... Cirrus Aircraft has been phenomenally successful at designing and selling airplanes - that's undisputed. What they have had trouble doing is actually making money at it. You'd imagine that selling planes at the prices they do, profits would be assured. Yet they almost went under until first bailed out by Saudi Arabian capital, and more recently by Chinese capital. There were times their cash flow could not even keep their rent payments to the City of Duluth current. Not sure anyone knows what's going with their profits since the Chinese purchase. NOT saying that FD is in that position - but several of the stories here point to problems that may be financial in nature. If any one has information to the contrary, I'd love to be shown wrong. My additional point is so did a lot of car manufacturers! EDIT: Anyone know if FD Germany is a public company? If so, are there financial documents that can be inspected to assess company health? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 If there are financial issues for FD they are certainly being helped along by the anticipation of the dropping of the third class medical and the delay in the Part 23 re-write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 But the recent expansion in manufacturing facilities here in the US point to good financial health, so the waters are...muddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 But the recent expansion in manufacturing facilities here in the US point to good financial health, so the waters are...muddy. That was because of a partnership with a local prestigious hotel owner. It wasn't FD Germany's investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 That was because of a partnership with a local prestigious hotel owner. It wasn't FD Germany's investment. Ah, good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I'm astonished at the reports of FD's recent customer service. This is not typical of German companies - they usually say what they mean and mean what they say. A healthy company will go to great lengths to appease customers when they are let down, particularly where a high-unit-value / low-unit-volume product is concerned. For a company to point-blank ignore its customers while hanging onto their money for up to a year longer than they should seems to be a clear warning of severe financial strain. It's hard to avoid the conclusion that they have 'bet the house' on the C4 project and are in a financial fire-fight for survival. Sorry for the negative hypothesis - it's not what most of us would want to consider, and I hope I'm miles off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunther Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 My experience is FD has a great attitude toward it's customers. I have always been given first rate treatment. It does take a long time to get a new airplane from them, but they do not bait and switch, they tell you that up front. And warranty work is done without complaint and quickly. Maybe that' s true for the US (FD's biggest market).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DECZR Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 some news about delivers from FD? some news about the financial situation of the company? My plane delivery was postpone without a new delivery date. I asked the COFACE company a report regarding FD and I'm waiting it next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Anyone know German? You can see some information, I don't know it's value, in the German firm registry. Here is the one page financial picture for 2013. I can order a beer in German but financial terms I have to look up. https://www.bundesanzeiger.de/ebanzwww/wexsservlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuco Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Anyone know German? You can see some information, I don't know it's value, in the German firm registry. Here is the one page financial picture for 2013. I can order a beer in German but financial terms I have to look up. https://www.bundesanzeiger.de/ebanzwww/wexsservlet Hello, I don't speak german, but google traduction (with all mistakes possible...) is your friend!!! Here is the "copy/paste" version of the document after the google traduction... and some "settings" to make it readable... (I hope...) Best regards, balance sheet assets 31.12.2013 EUR 31/12/2012 EUR A. Fixed Assets 3,033,565.88 3,168,067.49 I. Intangible Assets 86.00 286.00 II. Tangible assets 2,092,236.37 2,226,537.98 III. Financial assets 941,243.51 941,243.51 B. Current assets 4,549,513.88 4,554,996.88 I. Inventories 2,050,588.57 2,397,586.47 II. Receivables and other assets 2,485,451.27 2,109,905.08 which with a remaining maturity of more than one year 297,324.04 252,440.88 III. Cash, central bank balances, bank balances and checks 13,474.04 47,505.33 C. Prepaid expenses 19,078.67 11,912.33 Total assets, total assets 7,602,158.43 7,734,976.70 liabilities 31.12.2013 EUR 31/12/2012 EUR A. Capital 909,902.34 716,578.09 I. Subscribed capital / capital account / capital shares 51,129.19 51,129.19 1. Subscribed capital 51,129.19 51,129.19 II. Profit carried forward 665,448.90 547,836.86 III. Net income 193,324.25 117,612.04 B. Provisions 283,423.17 669,667.20 C. Liabilities 6,408,832.92 6,348,731.41 thereof with a residual maturity up to 1 year 5,446,420.65 5,038,569.17 Total assets, total liabilities 7,602,158.43 7,734,976.70 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 FD is experiencing growth pains. The company also deals with a maze of customs issues unique to their German and Ukraine split operation. Plus FD is very busy setting up their Chinese manufacturing which promises to expand their production substantially. None of these 'excuses' help a waiting customer feel any better, but the product is worth the wait... For those who can't wait the used market may yield a suitable alternative. My 14 month old CTLSi will be for sale soon, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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