Doug G. Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I learned a short time ago that the Air National Guard is going to start flying Predators in the pattern at our airport. Can't wait to be told - "You are number two following the Predator."! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 My understanding is that there must be a "chase plane" right behind the UAV, while it's in public airspace, so you may be #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 It is interesting to note the nomenclature of these devices: UAV - unmanned aerial vehicle - common industry term UAS - unmanned aircraft systems - FAA term and the one that will be used in official communications drone - ill defined term used by most media RPV - remotely piloted vehicle - military term for a subset of UAS There are probably more terms, and there are naturally nuances in and between the above terms. I use UAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 No chase planes. They have been flying them from the Grand Forks (ND) AFB but they are looking to save money since the ground control training (as well as the missions overseas) are flown by the ANG in Fargo. They will use the standard pattern and be in contact with ATC. Should be interesting. Their performance in the pattern is pretty close to a CT. I think they are settling on UAVRPS drones. I think they are selling on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 hmmm... from the FAA website: "Because UAS technology cannot currently comply with “see and avoid” rules that apply to all aircraft, a visual observer or an accompanying “chase plane” must maintain visual contact with the UAS and serve as its “eyes” when operating outside airspace restricted from other users." One of our forum members flies chase plane when drones operate outside of restricted space in Arizona. http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/uav-touches-down-gfafb (note the chase plane) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 There must be an exception for ground controlled (i.e. no satellite handoff) pattern work. The briefing we got was very thorough with ATC present, explaining how the operations would fit in with others in the traffic pattern. The even talked about what would happen if there was a loss of signal. No chase plane was ever mentioned. I have had a predator fly over me on final at the Grand Forks AFB there was no chase plane in sight. In addition, the border patrol uses them on a regular basis along the US - Canada border, not restricted airspace and chase planes would make no sense on the many hour missions. I'll know for certain by Sept. if the schedule holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 I am thinking things may have changed since 2008. (We were told there are three or four civilian airports where this is presently being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Even at the airbase in Grand Forks there is a permanent TFR (figure that one out) where you can enter by contacting civilian ATC for a transponder code after which they evidently "see and avoid" for you. The same will be done here with the UAV using a transponder and the piloting team in contact with ATC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercity Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 There are ground observers in place that communicate traffic visually to the operator. In the case of the UAS I operate I fly it visually like a giant RC model for takeoff and landing until hand off to the operator in the control station. Some will operate within a TFR using a observer until they obtain a IFR clearance and radar control. Most the time we operate at 18000 and above in class A so not a factor most the time. If we are lower outside of restricted and VFR beyond visual range of a ground observer we use a chase plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 At least it's a towered airport where separation can be maintained by ATC. The real pucker factor will come when they start flying these things into and out of uncontrolled airfields like mine... :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted July 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 I suspect they will fly the pattern better than I do. (Although I don't do much pattern work locally - I go to les busy places.) The ANG guy didn't say anything about an observer, but that would make sense since this week be for the initial takeoff flight training - the portion before the satellite control handoff - and landing. At times they will leave the area for an MOA to the west. I wouldn't worry Andy, they'll just be watching you from class A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 I suspect they will fly the pattern better than I do. (Although I don't do much pattern work locally - I go to les busy places.) The ANG guy didn't say anything about an observer, but that would make sense since this week be for the initial takeoff flight training - the portion before the satellite control handoff - and landing. At times they will leave the area for an MOA to the west. I wouldn't worry Andy, they'll just be watching you from class A. LOL. I'm not really worried about them being able to fly well. I worry about situational awareness. A human eye has about a 180° field of view. A drone operator has about a 20-40° field of view, which is like us trying to fly with the windows all taped up except a narrow slit, more more accurately like us flying with blinder-style goggles on, since the view can be swiveled on a drone. The real problem is traffic avoidance and awareness, which I'm convinced is about 50% of what ADS-B was designed to do: provide traffic awareness for UAV systems in the normal airspace system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 The FAA is looking for comments on the use of drones in our airspace. If you like to make your feelings known, send a faxed letter to the FAA. Re: Docket # FAA-2014-0352 Fax # 202-493-2251 I believe the deadline is the 16th of this month. All comments can be viewed at http://www.regulations.gov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 See FAA Docket number to voice your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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