johnp Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Kevin, Off topic, but I had a SR 20 and I'm looking at the FD. Can you please elaborate on the significant cost reduction in flying. You can either PM me, or start another topic, as I'm very interested. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 As another insurance data point, I just renewed mine. Last year with about 10hrs in type I was at $1414. This year with 70hrs in type and no claims I paid $1285. At least it's going slowly in the right direction. EDIT: This is a policy through USAIG brokered through AIM and Chris Wolbert, $75k hull value and full coverage with $1M limits, with $0 deductible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhanson Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I am working on becoming a GA to FD convert, and my first insurance quote was approx. $1800 to 2000/year. One hang-up was the question: "how much time in the CT ?". When checkout training is complete, the answer to that won't be too much time; therefore insurance premium will remain high for a while: guess I'll have to fly every day for the first year. Previously, an insurance agent suggested a bias against BRS/CAPS aircraft; i.e. the hull would be totaled following chute deployment. I'm thinking that we need more research on the subject. In my excellent dollar(demo) ride with "Coppercity" recently, my impression is that a chute landing would result in minimal damage. RH/SEZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 You should check, but I think mine went down at 50 and 100 hours. tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 A handful of Cirrus aircraft have been repaired after CAPS/BRS pulls and are flying again. Not sure if the same is possible with a CT under favorable conditions or not. But I think it's best to think of the BRS as a survival tool. When surviving an incident comes into any doubt at all, insurance claims and repairability really should not enter into the decision process. Just make sure YOU survive to fly another day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 It seems there have been remarkably few chute deployments on CTs - anyone know how many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 3-4 I believe. You can find out for sure on the BRS website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 According to the fellow who taught the composite class I took on the CT there have been CT's repaired after a chute deployment, but there was considerable damage. You also have to consider how the insurance company decides if the airplane is totaled. It is a balance between cost of repair and salvage value of the aircraft. The other thing to consider in how much damage there will be. The chute deployment doesn't just pop the little panel out, it rips through the roof of the aircraft. The landing will likely ruin at minimum the motor mount and firewall, the main gear and gear box area. This damage alone will put the cost of repairs along with salvage value over the total value of the airplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 The other thing to consider in how much damage there will be. The chute deployment doesn't just pop the little panel out, it rips through the roof of the aircraft. The landing will likely ruin at minimum the motor mount and firewall, the main gear and gear box area. This damage alone will put the cost of repairs along with salvage value over the total value of the airplane. Again, agree to disagree. I don't care a whit what happens to the plane. Screw it. Lots of pilots have died trying to save planes. For me, I'll go with the option that gives me the best chance of survival. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Should be a simple exercise since there are older CT's without a chute (I think). Just ask your broker for quotes for each configuration to help guide your purchase decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 This thread is about the cost of insurance, not whether to pull the chute or not. Well, some are finding a link between insurance rates and hull damage and even asserting that would affect their decision to pull. Hence, I think there's enough of a connection to be relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 3-4 I believe. You can find out for sure on the BRS website I counted three on the BRS site. 1) VFR into IMC, chute pulled at 6000' 2) Go around gone bad in Morocco, chute pulled at 60' 3) Flight Design test pilot testing for Vne+ flutter had a wing failure at 195mph (~170kt). Pulled the chute far above deployment speed at 1200' and it worked. As far as I can tell, and assuming these are the only incidents of BRS deployment for CTs, all persons survived without significant injury. That's an outstanding record in a wide range of conditions. Note that two of the three were outside the documented deployment envelope in speed or altitude, and yet were still successful. This is pretty good data promoting the effectiveness of the CT BRS system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I am working on becoming a GA to FD convert, and my first insurance quote was approx. $1800 to 2000/year. One hang-up was the question: "how much time in the CT ?". When checkout training is complete, the answer to that won't be too much time; therefore insurance premium will remain high for a while: guess I'll have to fly every day for the first year. Previously, an insurance agent suggested a bias against BRS/CAPS aircraft; i.e. the hull would be totaled following chute deployment. I'm thinking that we need more research on the subject. In my excellent dollar(demo) ride with "Coppercity" recently, my impression is that a chute landing would result in minimal damage. RH/SEZ Correct. Insurance companies do not give a break for the BRS because they believe that once the chute is pulled the aircraft will be totaled. The insurance is for the plane, not for the people. cynical huh? Hull value is the 99% cost driver for the insurance on any plane, and is also true for the CT. The fixed gear on the CT also make it little cheaper. insurance companies know that half of all accidents they pay out on are due to retractable gear issues.. There is a small formula for all aircraft in regard to time in the air. Also, if two pilots in the plane, they take the pilot with the fewest hours as their basis. To get a significant break on hours we are told it would require someone with 1000 hours or more, and hundreds in the CT. Otherwise, its a small savings. In general, for a new CT with a hull value of $150k plus, it's around $2500/yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Again, agree to disagree. I don't care a whit what happens to the plane. Screw it. Lots of pilots have died trying to save planes. For me, I'll go with the option that gives me the best chance of survival. Period. You are disagreeing with a point that I am not making by taking what I posted out of context. I have never implied that cost should ever be a consideration in using the chute. When I posted I didn't realize this was an old thread. I was simply replying to post #28 by rhanson which showed up at the top of the page. My reply to him was about the fact that there is more than minimal damage when you pull the chute, and how the insurance company decides if the airplane is totaled. I am in no way implying the cost of repairs or any other factors other than saving the occupants of the aircraft be considered in pulling the chute handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZAV8OR Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Again, agree to disagree. I don't care a whit what happens to the plane. Screw it. Lots of pilots have died trying to save planes. For me, I'll go with the option that gives me the best chance of survival. Period. Like I've said for years, I consider the throttle to be the ownership transfer lever: at idle. I own it, anything forward, the insurance company does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I am in no way implying the cost of repairs or any other factors other than saving the occupants of the aircraft be considered in pulling the chute handle. Then we agree, and I'm sorry I got the context screwed up. My bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I counted three on the BRS site. 1) VFR into IMC, chute pulled at 6000' 2) Go around gone bad in Morocco, chute pulled at 60' 3) Flight Design test pilot testing for Vne+ flutter had a wing failure at 195mph (~170kt). Pulled the chute far above deployment speed at 1200' and it worked. As far as I can tell, and assuming these are the only incidents of BRS deployment for CTs, all persons survived without significant injury. That's an outstanding record in a wide range of conditions. Note that two of the three were outside the documented deployment envelope in speed or altitude, and yet were still successful. This is pretty good data promoting the effectiveness of the CT BRS system. Is that a typo, or do you really mean sixty feet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 It is my understanding that he was also going over a cliff when he deployed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Is that a typo, or do you really mean sixty feet? That's what it says on the BRS site for that incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZAV8OR Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Is that a typo, or do you really mean sixty feet? Assuming he was not hurt, this sounds like a Monty skit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Assuming he was not hurt, this sounds like a Monty skit! You're sure you don't mean Spinal Tap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZAV8OR Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 You're sure you don't mean Spinal Tap? I actually meant "Bennie Hill". Can't you just hear the music? (Man I hope the pilot was unhurt!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 I actually meant "Bennie Hill". Can't you just hear the music? (Man I hope the pilot was unhurt!) That's spelt 'Benny' - British name, even more British humour. (Do you watch that stuff in America?!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 That's spelt 'Benny' - British name, even more British humour. (Do you watch that stuff in America?!) Benny Hill was a staple for me as a teenager, I used to watch it with my dad nightly. Fun stuff. BTW, BRS lists the 60' incident as a "save" so the pilot must have made it okay. Unknown if the chute had time to deploy fully or just acted as a speed brake to lessen impact energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 That's spelt 'Benny' - British name, even more British humour. (Do you watch that stuff in America?!) Are you kidding? Benny Hill was one of my favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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