Jump to content

High Speed Landing


gbigs

Recommended Posts

I advise my students that if they have speed to lose, and available runway to get down, to always accomplish it out of ground effect.

When you're trying to slow, drag is your friend, and drag is diminished within approximately one wingspan of the ground.

In addition, "diving for the runway" is generally frowned upon. Speed is gained in the process, and trying to lose it in ground effect will result in a LOT of float. And 1,000' in a CT is a LOT of float. Flaps are your friend here, and as MovingOn says, they were called for in this case. Why the reluctance?

Instead of...
 

Pulled to idle, and pitched down hard at 0 flaps, got up to 80kts again as i leveled off over the runway threshold...

 

I would have liked to have read, "Pulled to idle, leveled off until below Vfe, put down max flaps, and only when reaching 55k pitched down to maintain that and proceeded as a normal approach and landing."

This one worked out for you, but it was hardly a stabilized approach. Most Conservative Action is to go around and set up for another try.

But good effort. License to learn and all that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went up yesterday and let the airplane get a little ahead of me.  I went to idle and flaps 15 downwind abeam the numbers as I usually do and didn't carefully watch my altitude.  Instead of going through 600' on base, the plane was still at 900' because of air rising off the fields.  I went to flaps 30, pitched for 60 knots and still touched down on the first third of the runway.  Flaps are your friend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Convective weather was chasing me back from a little trip south.

 

I entered on a 45 at 80kts and made a downwind and base turn to a short final...I was at pattern altitude so needed to lose altitude while lining up with the runway. Pulled to idle, and pitched down hard at 0 flaps, got up to 80kts again as i leveled off over the runway threshold. I pitched up to lose the speed climbing a bit over the runway, set in 15 flaps and sank fast. About 1000 feet passed under the plane before level sink set in. The plane settled quickly as I feathered the nose up and the mains touched at around 55kts without a skid or a complaint. All by mid field.

 

I was pleasantly surprised to see how well the CT handled at higher speed approaches.

I wasn't there.

But . . . based upon your report, that sounds like a pretty good description of what is commonly referred to as an "unstabilized approach."

 

Here's my question (not criticism!) to you, "why not just practice a good go-around maneuver and come back around and do a stabilized approach?

 

It has been my experience that usually good landings follow good approaches. On the other hand, screwed up approaches are usually precursors to poor landing.

 

It's great for the ego to salvage a landing from a terrible approach, but many times that salvage has more to do with luck than extraordinary piloting skill. Unless of course, one considers himself an "Ace." I have known a few who are no longer with us anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Diving while forward slipping is one of the best ways to loose a crapton of altitude without a significant gain in airspeed.

 

Nothing wrong with diving on final either, if you dive a ways below the slope and float in to bleed airspeed. Just need to know what you are doing and be aware of obstacles and a plan B if it goes wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The CT actually descends at a little higher rate with 0 flaps 80 knots at idle vs idle full flaps and 62kts which is Vfe with Max flaps. I will typically use 0 flaps for those days with convective activity but don't change flap settings once on short final. Use 0 flap if needed but do a stabilized approach at the appropriate speed for the flap setting and stick with it. Changing things up over the runway while trying to round out and reduce speed is a distraction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The CT actually descends at a little higher rate with 0 flaps 80 knots at idle vs idle full flaps and 62kts which is Vfe with Max flaps. I will typically use 0 flaps for those days with convective activity but don't change flap settings once on short final. Use 0 flap if needed but do a stabilized approach at the appropriate speed for the flap setting and stick with it. Changing things up over the runway while trying to round out and reduce speed is a distraction.

Good to know if you've got traffic on your tail.  I prefer the leisurely approach if possible though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Diving while forward slipping is one of the best ways to loose a crapton of altitude without a significant gain in airspeed.

Nothing wrong with diving on final either, if you dive a ways below the slope and float in to bleed airspeed. Just need to know what you are doing and be aware of obstacles and a plan B if it goes wrong.

I find if I am slipping and let the nose drop, the CT picks up speed quickly. To maintain speed in a slip I have to consciously hold the nose up. This is at 15 flaps and 55-58 knots when I'm out of nose up trim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find if I am slipping and let the nose drop, the CT picks up speed quickly. To maintain speed in a slip I have to consciously hold the nose up. This is at 15 flaps and 55-58 knots when I'm out of nose up trim.

 

If you slip it hard and drop the nose, it will pick up some speed, but you are dumping enormous amounts of potential energy due to the high amounts of drag and inefficient lift generated by a forward slip configuration. You need to drop a little bit below the slope and let the airspeed bleed off after you return to normal approach configuration.

 

You only need to dip the nose if you are really needing to dump altitude, such as getting over tall obstacles. Otherwise, forward slipping works fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really don't think there's anything that special or different about your plane's capabilities.

 

Nice plane, but virtually any LSA or certified standard category airplane of comparable size could do exactly what yours did in that landing. Some maybe a little better, some maybe a little worse.

 

I know at first each plane tends to feel so different. With more time, experience and exposure to different types, eventually they all feel pretty much the same, albeit with their own strengths, weaknesses and quirks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know at first each plane tends to feel so different. With more time, experience and exposure to different types, eventually they all feel pretty much the same, albeit with their own strengths, weaknesses and quirks.

 

This is the important thing right here. Planes really all fly the same (unless you get into oddball configurations like the flying wing), but each has their quirks. I will admit though, the FDCT does have it's own unique little quirks that make it quite fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course, any airplane will do that and drift down the runway.

And if it's a Mooney, into the next county!

 

Seriously, one can get an unpleasant surprise if one is used to a high wing and gets into a clean, low wing plane unprepared for the increase in ground effect. Often leads to "planting" the plane while there's still runway left, then bouncing, porpoising, and possible prop strike.

 

I don't see much reason to practice poor technique just because one can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Diving toward the runway because you are too high is poor piloting technique.  Try that on an engine failure to a short field and you will over fly the field and land in the trees.  Pilots (even Flight Design pilots) should use proper technique.  Full flaps, proper approach airspeed for full flaps, perhaps some s-turns or a slip would have worked much better.  There is no reason in the world to practice diving toward the runway.  Of course, any airplane will do that and drift down the runway.

 

Except valley airstrips where you have to get over tall obstacles and dive towards the dirt?

 

It's not poor piloting technique. It's a bush pilot technique. I've used it myself on occasion for practice; you just have to know your plane.

 

I'm not referring to diving directly towards the runway, I am referring to using an aimpoint well before the runway, straightening out, then floating the last few hundred feet to the runway to burn off airspeed. If you really need to drop and stop, then you keep the slip going even after you bring the nose back up from the dive and your airspeed will fall off VERY quickly (and dangerously if you don't watch what you are doing).

 

It's bad technique if you have to use it as a crutch when it isn't necessary or for practice. Or if you just want a wild ride :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really don't think there's anything that special or different about your plane's capabilities.

 

Nice plane, but virtually any LSA or certified standard category airplane of comparable size could do exactly what yours did in that landing. Some maybe a little better, some maybe a little worse.

 

I know at first each plane tends to feel so different. With more time, experience and exposure to different types, eventually they all feel pretty much the same, albeit with their own strengths, weaknesses and quirks.

Concur completely Eddie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the important thing right here. Planes really all fly the same (unless you get into oddball configurations like the flying wing), but each has their quirks. I will admit though, the FDCT does have it's own unique little quirks that make it quite fun.

To me, my CTSW is like a little European sportscar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really don't think there's anything that special or different about your plane's capabilities.

 

Nice plane, but virtually any LSA or certified standard category airplane of comparable size could do exactly what yours did in that landing. Some maybe a little better, some maybe a little worse.

 

I know at first each plane tends to feel so different. With more time, experience and exposure to different types, eventually they all feel pretty much the same, albeit with their own strengths, weaknesses and quirks.

 

My instructor says he flies his 152 the same way he flies the Southwest 737 at work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...