Ed Cesnalis Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Which is more expensive to repair? Nosing over or pulling the chute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Which is more expensive to repair? Nosing over or pulling the chute?Valuing my life and limb infinitely more than any plane, for me that would not be a conscious factor. I would weigh, "Which is more likely to injure or kill me? Nosing over or pulling the chute. Screw the airplane." But That's Just Me! Last post on this topic. This time I mean it. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Valuing my life and limb infinitely more than any plane, for me that would not be a conscious factor. I would weigh, "Which is more likely to injure or kill me? Nosing over or pulling the chute. Screw the airplane." But That's Just Me! Last post on this topic. This time I mean it. Really. Lets say the proverbial 'near perfect grass field' is below and I ran out of gas. I have countless off field landings under my belt and in this case have equal confidence chute vs dead stick landing on grass field. Which costs more nosing over or pulling the chute? I will concede that with Cirrus you have more data and more risk so its easier to come up with an automatic pull decision in cases where a light sport might still be an open question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I have landed on grass fields too, with stock tires. I would not compare that to landing on an agricultural field however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I have landed on grass fields too, with stock tires. I would not compare that to landing on an agricultural field however. Same here, and I even have 8 ply tires on the mains. The runway I landed in was a little rough with lots of crab grass clumps, but it was not bad. I would not want to try it on anything a lot rougher than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrdrpepper Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 As a student learning in a CTLS, the willingness of more experienced pilots to “rehash” topics such as this is of great interest and value. I sometimes get discouraged with my ineptitude at learning this complex flying exercise, but your dialogue and insights keep me coming back. Please don’t bail on these topics. As 100hamburger points out, it is not trite and old hat to some of us. I may not complete my training, but I appreciate the knowledge I have gained on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 As a student learning in a CTLS, the willingness of more experienced pilots to “rehash” topics such as this is of great interest and value. Sure, But using the "search" function can provide tons of good information on a given topic as well, without the repetition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 herrdrpepper, I am 64 years old. I got my Sport Pilot license about 2.5 yrs. ago. I had not been a pilot or trained before that time. It takes perseverance (and possibly a different instructor if communications is an issue) but don't let it drop. I don't know how many people I have talked to who have said, "It is cool that you are a pilot...I took lessons for a while." As someone once told me - "You can't do it any younger!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Kent Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 herrdrpepper, I am 64 years old. I got my Sport Pilot license about 2.5 yrs. ago. I had not been a pilot or trained before that time. It takes perseverance (and possibly a different instructor if communications is an issue) but don't let it drop. I don't know how many people I have talked to who have said, "It is cool that you are a pilot...I took lessons for a while." As someone once told me - "You can't do it any younger!" Same story for me, except I'm 60 and had never even been in a single engine plane until I took a discovery flight at age 57. I passed my sport pilot exam in March 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrdrpepper Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 I understand this thread is about when to utilize the BRS. I do appreciate Doug’s encouragement as well as Fast Eddie’s unnecessary reminder that "search “exists. I am a 71 year old retired M.D. who has been both drawn to and fearful of flying. After 30 hours of instruction, I really don’t think I am going to be a pilot, though I am really happy I have learned to fly…I have passed the FAA test of knowledge…and as I have said, am appreciative of this forum. I will continue to lurk.. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Tom, If you find yourself headed to points south, you are invited to stop by my airport at Copperhill, TN. We can discuss all things Light Sport and BRS and though my CFI certificate is not current, I'd be happy to let you fly my Sky Arrow to get a taste of one of the more esoteric designs out there. I'll even buy lunch. I just turned 65, but was fortunate enough to begin my flying career at 25. But it's never too Kate. I only mentioned the search function because there already exists a wealth of information, and more than a few opinions, on the pros and cons of BRS, both on this site and others. I'm a big believer, BTW. The YouTube video I linked to is, in my opinion, one of the fairest and comprehensive reviews of the utility of the CAPS system in the Cirrus. Please check it out if you have not already - it is well worth the time. And welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Who pulls the chute? Let's suppose you are out flying with your friend whom you esteem, admire, cherish, respect and all that. And "something" happens. It's his airplane and he is PIC. Your friend believe he can and decides to begin a dead stick landing. You are convinced to the innermost reaches of your being that a BSR pull is indicated. Your friend says, "No." Is there ever a time you'd pull the chute and end the friendship? Remember, it's his plane and he is PIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Is there ever a time you'd pull the chute and end the friendship? Remember, it's his plane and he is PIC. It depends on who the friend is, Roger Lee for instance I would likely pull if he failed to keep his slip/skid ball in its cage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 I don't fly normal anyway so you would have a hard time figuring out what was normal in an bad situation. I have no illusions of when or where to pull my chute. Safety first. Besides I would love to pull the chute at least once to see what happens. Still want to go with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Kent Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 What lingers in my mind is "what if the chute fails". (Ejects, doesn't open properly, wraps around the fuselage,etc), I have given up all control to an uncontrolled situation. Is this such a low probability that I need to eliminate it from my thinking? I guess to phrase it another way, maybe as long as I'm controlling the plane (referring to engine failure here, not midair or bird strike) I feel like I have some input to the outcome. I guess at some point I need to say I need to trust the system over my control (and training (never practiced chute pull, but several dead stick landings). There was a StingSport where a blade separated during check ride, and he successfully dreadsticked into a field even though he had a chute. I emailed him and his position was that as long as there was control he felt he wouldn't use the chute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Great ethical question, Jim. Although I'm definitely a control freak, I believe in the chain of command. I may discuss the choice to pull the chute but would support the PICs decision. I'm also assuming the situation is such that the desired touch down area is not egregiously bad and it's a judgement call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZAV8OR Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 I don't fly normal anyway so you would have a hard time figuring out what was normal in an bad situation. I have no illusions of when or where to pull my chute. Safety first. Besides I would love to pull the chute at least once to see what happens. Still want to go with me? You need to go to one of the Cirrus motion sims (there's one at KVGT) and see what it's like to pull the red handle. The first time I did it, I was so spring-loaded that, when he killed my oil pressure at 200AGL on my first take off, I pulled. And killed everyone. The instructor then says, "Everyone does that the first time. Now that you have that out of your system..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Kent Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Pull the chute, if it fails, fly the plane. . If it's wrapped around the tail or partially opens you may not be able to fly the plane, and my guess is you hit the ground much faster than stall speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Besides I would love to pull the chute at least once to see what happens. Still want to go with me? http://www.nicktoons.com/videos/clip/space-madness-clip-2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 There was a StingSport where a blade separated during check ride, and he successfully dreadsticked into a field even though he had a chute. I emailed him and his position was that as long as there was control he felt he wouldn't use the chute. I'm not sure that's the best decision making criterion. It worked out in that case, but there have been many cases of controlled flight right to the morgue. Control of the aircraft does not mean a likely good outcome, there is much more to it than that. Terrain available for landing is probably as important as whether there is control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 That Sting is owned by a good friend of mine. It shook so bad after the blade separation that it bent the engine mounts. It only took a second or two to shut it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 That Sting is owned by a good friend of mine. It shook so bad after the blade separation that it bent the engine mounts. It only took a second or two to shut it off. What kind of prop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 What kind of prop? Woodcomp SR200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 What lingers in my mind is "what if the chute fails". (Ejects, doesn't open properly, wraps around the fuselage,etc), I have given up all control to an uncontrolled situation. Is this such a low probability that I need to eliminate it from my thinking? I guess to phrase it another way, maybe as long as I'm controlling the plane (referring to engine failure here, not midair or bird strike) I feel like I have some input to the outcome. I guess at some point I need to say I need to trust the system over my control (and training (never practiced chute pull, but several dead stick landings). There was a StingSport where a blade separated during check ride, and he successfully dreadsticked into a field even though he had a chute. I emailed him and his position was that as long as there was control he felt he wouldn't use the chute. My POV is that the chute is installed properly and has been engineered and installed to operate as documented so I expect the chute to work when I pull the handle. If I expected otherwise, I wouldn't have the chute in the first place Also, I'm not so sure one is in complete control if you don't pull the chute. You are somewhat limited in your choices of landing and you have no idea about the surface you've selected until it's too late to make a change. My one engine out dead stick landing is a pretty good example. My choice at 6000' looked great, at 1000' looked good, at 50' I told the controller "It doesn't look too hospitable down here". In the end, it is more important to have thought through the likely scenarios and decide on your course of action then stick to them in the unlikely event you'll need to execute the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Are there any example of the chute getting wrapped in the tail (when it was deployed correctly) or is this just made up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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