Falling Leaf Stall

[Jim]

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine/1998/October/199810_Flying_Safe_Instructor_Tips.html

 

Anyone try this in a CT?

[Doug G.]

Where does it say "1000 ft. AGL" in the article?

[CT4ME]

It says "at least 1,000 feet above a minimum safe altitude", which is a bit sketchy.  I take it to mean 1,000 feet above where you might otherwise be doing procedures.

 

Is this anything like the Diamond emergency landing procedure, which I've always pictured as a controlled stall to the ground?  

[Tony & Rose]

Yep, all the time.  We do this in demonstrating the controllability of the CTsw.  If it is rudder control you want to show, then make sure the ailerons remain natural....  (I have found that there is always flow over the ailerons in various stalls.)   We do this with BOTH power-on and power-off stalls.  I've been curious as to how long, how far I could do the 'leaf'; and I've been able to descend about 1500 feet before the nose completely passed through the horizon. However, the movements need to be 'gentle'. If you get the wings in a respectful angle, then the nose comes around (and drops) and you are in a normal banked stall....

Do this with power-on,(about 4500rpm), bring up gently on to edge of the stall (first buffet) and when the CT starts to 'settle downward' then holding the pre-stall configuration play around with your various controls. Similar to doing slow flight, but just behind the curve.

[Jim]

Thanks Tony.  Just what I wanted to verify.

[FastEddieB]

 

Second, I agree with CT...no stall should be attempted unless the ball is kept centered using rudder.  If a student is taught any other way of replicating a stall, they will no doubt stall wing down and possibly enter a spin.  Then the whole thing becomes spin training, and not stall training.

I wanted my students to see what a cross-control stall was like. I would have them intentionally stall in a skid. I wanted them to actually see the accompanying wing drop, and how to recover.

 

Better for them to do it with me, than to accidentally see it for themselves the first time, alone in the plane.

 

Which, by the way, I did - and it scared me pretty badly.

[FastEddieB]

In any case, this is from AOPA's Flight Training Magazine online:

 

All your study of stalls to this point has probably been focused on power-on and power-off stalls. Did you know that there are three other types of stalls that would-be CFIs must be able to perform? While they are found only in the practical test standards (PTS) for flight instructors, in the interest of safety, pilots in general would be wise to learn about these maneuvers. Here's some information on all five stall types.

 

...

 

Crossed-control stall

 

The crossed-control stall involves moving the ailerons in one direction and rudder in the other. The pilot, turning from base leg to final approach with slow airspeed and controls crossed, risks a stall or spin. This stall is particularly dangerous because of the potential for spin at low altitude. The hazard is overcome by holding appropriate airspeed with good coordination. Avoid cross-controlling. This is appropriately demonstrated at an altitude of 3,000 feet agl or higher.

 

I feel any student that has not had these at least demonstrated by his or her instructor had been shortchanged, and would do well to seek out an instructor to practice them with.

 

Complete article here: http://flighttraining.aopa.org/students/maneuvers/skills/stalls.html

[Tom Baker]

I started taking lessons when I was 14. I had a while to wait for solo. Prior to solo I had the chance to do some training that normal private pilot students don't get. I was taught spins. We did them from all kinds of entries, including from acelerated stalls. It was valuable training that I am glad I was able to do so early in my flying career.

[CT2kflyer]

I have done the falling leaf stall in my CT2k......... full idle, full stick aft, flaps 0-15 degrees........ and it's like magic.  Easy and fun.  But........... but........ a very very experienced CFI with whom I shared the experience, cautioned me that I was putting excessive strain on the rear empennage of the aircraft sufficient to make him nervous.

 

I don't know if he was correct or not but since he had about 15,000 more hours of PIC time than I did, I stopped doing them.

 

Still......... it was nice while it lasted. 

[FastEddieB]

I have done the falling leaf stall in my CT2k......... full idle, full stick aft, flaps 0-15 degrees........ and it's like magic.  Easy and fun.  But........... but........ a very very experienced CFI with whom I shared the experience, cautioned me that I was putting excessive strain on the rear empennage of the aircraft sufficient to make him nervous.

 

I would love to hear his rationale on that - stalling an aircraft, even repeatedly, is normally very low stress on an airframe.

[Tom Baker]

I remember back when the Piper Tomahawks first came out, and doing stalls in one of them and looking back at the tail violently shaking. For whatever reason the empennage seems to take more abuse while the aircraft is in the stalled condition.

[Tony & Rose]

I concur with Fast Eddie; stress should be very low at the rear in a CT.  In fact, I'd bet lunch at your favorite walkup that the stab is still flying while in the stall. I always seem to have solid positive stab control while entering and in the stall.  For the Tomahawk -- are you in the 'T-tail' version???  (Think airflow dynamics)

[dick747]

The issue is the tail encountering the turbulence of the separated wake from the wing.  I spent my career designing commercial airplanes and stall buffet on the tail was a big deal.  An example of what can happen was  a  DC 10 out of Paris as I recall that stalled during climb and caused serious damage to the horizontal tail.  There is even evidence of fatal accidents resulting from stall buffet.   

[Anticept]

The stalls you guys are referring to with T-Tails are called "deep stalls". The article is pretty good explaining what is happening, and shows pictures.

[Tom Baker]

I have seen the tail shake on other airplanes, it was just esier to see in the Tomahawk.

[FastEddieB]

I've had other pilots in the runup area ask me if the shaking of the horizontal stabilizer on my Sky Arrow was normal.

 

I'm sure hoping it is!

[Roger Lee]

When you do a ground runup on a CT watch the stab shake, but at 160 MPH it doesn't shake.

[liltaka]

Nice subject!

 

It is on my to do list...

Falling leaf stall is one of the maneuver our instructor showed us a few times (not taught us)...

Then, I thought...this is it! If I can master this then nothing for me to fear!

 

My angle is a bit different from the rest of you due to my fear of flight / falling.

My understanding about falling leaf stall is to understand "stall" characteristic of the aircraft.

If I can use opposite rudder to counter react to the initiation of the spin, then you know your aircraft well.

On top of that, if I can do that multiple times...I must have learned spin recovery before spinning.

 

My goal one day is to master this maneuver to concur the fear of spin = falling...

Which means, even when I'm falling, I can safely maneuver the aircraft from spin out of control.

That is the ultimate for me to learn...I know it is just for me, but it is on my "must learn" list.

 

After that is turning stall, I would like to know and learn to recover from turning stall...

Then, I would like to concur 20+ Knots with 10 gust direct cross wind in thermal condition .

 

Only then, I can call myself "pilot"...I know, I just got my ticket to learn, so just one step at a time...

Just can't wait to feel the "one with aircraft" feels like...

[GravityKnight]

Never really tried this in a CT, usually just recover once a wing drops. But in the CH750 I have done this a few times, it does this very well/easily. You can hold it stalled with very little effort.. It comes down real nice. Like it's almost weird how smooth/uneventful a stall is in that plane.