FlyingMonkey Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 These guys claim their fields don't allow a DOT approved transfer tank on a trailer over storing a bunch of gas cans and funnels. I don't believe it, but if true, their airfields are under mismanagement. Lugging a heavy can of gas up a step ladder and balancing the weight over a funnel stuck in the fuel port of a high wing over the life of an aircraft is one definition of insanity. I built my little fuel trailer in a day using a trailer kit from Walmart (aluminum) and a DOT tank bought online from JMEllison (pump + fuel filter too). I got the battery from eBay (deep charge) and the static reel online too (attaches to the exhaust of the plane when fueling). It took a day to assemble it all and used it later than afternoon. Total cost? $900 bucks. The trailer can be towed by an ordinary car. The hose is 12 feet long, and has an embedded ground cable inside of it attached to the nozzle and the pump housing. The nozzle is just like the one at a gas station, it even has an automatic shutoff on it. You can buy them already assembled, but they cost a lot more. The fuel trailer is safer than the plane itself in regard to storing fuel (when the plane is in the hangar, it is storing fuel). Any field management that objects to a fuel trailer professionally put together over storing gas cans is not just wrong, they are also encouraging far more dangerous practices. Challenging that should be easy if one were so inclined. The management on my airfield love the trailer. But they still also allow others to use cans still. Everybody is glad you like your fuel solution. Not everybody has to choose the same solution you have, though. What does it matter to you if some people choose to do something differently, even if you consider it harder or less convenient? No skin off your back, and there may actually be valid reasons for their choices based on their circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 And, you are not listening Burgers- I DO NOT STORE FUEL IN CANS AT MY HANGAR! IT IS NOT ALLOWED! I bring the fuel out and put it in the plane. Then I return the empty jugs to my truck. Got it? We have had this whole conversation before. Either I am stupid for doing things the way I do, or you are too thick to understand that it works very well. Take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdoc737 Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 From what I understand, the Mr Funnel is slightly conductive, eliminating the need for an extra bonding wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 From mrfunnel.com FAQ page: "Other Safety Information Do not fill from a gas pump into portable fuel containers using Mr. Funnel." They don't say why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 From mrfunnel.com FAQ page: "Other Safety Information Do not fill from a gas pump into portable fuel containers using Mr. Funnel." They don't say why. Grounding problems, and the general blanket liability stuff. When pouring into or out of portable gas containers, they have a unique grounding problem. You have a type of plastic that does not conduct electricity, but you have a moving fluid, which DOES build up static electricity (and have had multiple gasoline explosions all over the country, in aviation, gas pumps, farm equipment, etc, so there's definitely a risk without proper grounding). Your car has a plate in it which is a flame arrestor, which your portable gas tank will NOT have while filling from a Mr Funnel. It is the lack of flame arrestors in blitz gas cans that caused the company to go out of business. I don't know if it's necessarily a danger though. They were freaking out about cell phones at a gas pump. Snopes said there hasn't been an explosion yet. EDIT: Mr Funnel does say you can use the 15 gph model at a gas pump. http://www.mrfunnel.com/Mr._Funnel/Models.html "Our F15 is our fastest flow model at up to 15 gallons per minute! This model can also be used at a fuel pump." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Interesting. So I may get an F15. Tuff Jugs meet OSHA standards which are more stringent than DOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 If you read the FAQ, it says all the black ones are conductive because they have enough carbon in the material to drain off the static electricity. It does not say why the F15 is different and can be used at the fuel pump. Maybe flow rate? It has a 1" discharge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Well, yeah, but is conductivity good or bad at the fuel pump? The flow rate was a bit of a pain, but not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul m Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Interesting. So I may get an F15. Tuff Jugs meet OSHA standards which are more stringent than DOT. Doug I have an F15. Used it once. As stated above I've decided to stop filtering. If you're interested in buying let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madhatter Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Try a Goatthroat pump sold by Aircraft Spruce. I've been using it for two years works great and is designed to be used on aircraft. No spills and easy to use. Takes about 2 min to pump 5 gals. I put several 5 gal gas containers on a rolling tray table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 +1 goat throat. Have one, works extremely well for pumping all sorts of (compatible) fluids. Note that you must order the correct type, as they use different plastics and gaskets. Call them and they will talk to you and give you recommendations. Viton plastic is the type you want for gasoline. Make sure you ask about a grounding type too. They will put conductive plastic in it to reduce sparking hazard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted December 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 I see I forgot to report on my experience after having purchased 5-gallon Tuff Jugs with the nozzle adapters. Work great! 45 seconds per 5 gallon jug. I use the smallest Werner telescoping ladder (from Lowes): the height is perfect and the ladder is stable. Haven't spilled one drop yet (but I still use a wing fuel mat). Very convenient, easy to use, easy to transfer to the gas station in the back of my SUV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 jbm - work great don't they? I use a platform type painter's ladder which works well in my hangar. I've been doing this for about two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Petersburg Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Thanks to this site I bought 4 Tuff Jugs with adaptors and I love them. No spills. Once you lift the jugs onto the wing filler opening you are not fighting the weight of the fuel. As jbm3 said 45 seconds later your done. Love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Brian, You'll have to fly down to Iowa City someday, or maybe I'll have to fly up to Decorah. There are two more airplanes here with Rotax 912's and three ELSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardnmn Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 I didn't want to lift or decant jerry cans. also i got tired of cranking a hand pump so... i found a fill-rite pump (15 gpm, designed for gasoline. comes with nice dispensing hose & nozzle) and plastic 55 gallon drum on craigslist. mounted the pump, with a flexible suction line on the drum; put the drum on a cart with a 12volt battery. everything (airplane, pump, cart) is grounded to metal hanger with jumper cables. i cut holes in plastic drum so i could stow hoses, grounding cables & fire extinguishers inside drum. i always fuel outside hanger. then roll the assembly into hanger and connect battery to a battery tender. only been using it a few month but works great so far. i'll try to post pix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 You should use a steel drum, not a plastic one. Those plastic containers are made of polyethylene, which absorb and decay in the presence of certain fuel additives over time, and you can't ground them. It's not the same as 5 gallon cans, which use high density polyethylene (different molecular structure).You can get steel drums with a phenolic epoxy lining which keeps them from rusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 Howard, I can understand where filling your Remos would be especially difficult with something like a Tough Jug. With the CT, once you have the jug in the filler you are no longer holding the weight of the jug, just keeping it upright. We each find out own best solutions for our situations (within the regs of course). A mark of a good pilot, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 Built this all aluminum fuel trailer with DOT approved 55 gallon tank, 10 foot hose, deep cycle battery, static ground and Fill-Rite electric fuel pump and nozzle for about $800. I plan to give this to the new owner when I sell the plane next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Jefts Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 Built this all aluminum fuel trailer with DOT approved 55 gallon tank, 10 foot hose, deep cycle battery, static ground and Fill-Rite electric fuel pump and nozzle for about $800. I plan to give this to the new owner when I sell the plane next year. That is a nice looking outfit for $800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 You should use a steel drum, not a plastic one. Those plastic containers are made of polyethylene, which absorb and decay in the presence of certain fuel additives over time, and you can't ground them. It's not the same as 5 gallon cans, which use high density polyethylene (different molecular structure). You can get steel drums with a phenolic epoxy lining which keeps them from rusting. It doesn't sound like he is using the drum to store fuel. he is just using it as a mount for the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 I didn't want to lift or decant jerry cans. also i got tired of cranking a hand pump so... i found a fill-rite pump (15 gpm, designed for gasoline. comes with nice dispensing hose & nozzle) and plastic 55 gallon drum on craigslist. mounted the pump, with a flexible suction line on the drum; put the drum on a cart with a 12volt battery. everything (airplane, pump, cart) is grounded to metal hanger with jumper cables. i cut holes in plastic drum so i could stow hoses, grounding cables & fire extinguishers inside drum. i always fuel outside hanger. then roll the assembly into hanger and connect battery to a battery tender. only been using it a few month but works great so far. i'll try to post pix. Grounding to metal hangar is good, Bonding to airplane and grounding to hangar is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 Grounding to metal hangar is good, Bonding to airplane and grounding to hangar is better. Bonding tank to airplane is the bare minimum . Bonding to earth ground is more to prevent you from discharging as you shuffle about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knolde Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Jacques has the right/correct/easiest solution. I use the same system, a towel then the 5 gal can, and then the syphon to fill. I am also lucky in that I can get 91 octane mogas without the corn crap. Dr. Ken Nolde, CTLS 840KN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardnmn Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 just to clarify my crude setup...it's all grounded to metal hanger which has steel stakes going into earth; battery, pump, airplane ground, cart all tied to hanger. no sparks. pump was $150. plastic drum to mount pump $12. battery tender $5 & jumper cables $12 harbor freight. cart is old. battery is old. i can fill jerry cans at gas station in car trunk and suck from there into plane. never once lifting jerry cans. it's all ugly but i'm just thinking ahead... i may be flying when I'm 80 ) only messy part is overflow jerry can but usually less than a quart. i guess the key was spending time on craigslist finding a good used fill-rite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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