AZAV8OR Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 The bad news: my left main tire got FOD'd on the ramp at KGEU this morning. (breakfast just got real expensive) The good news: the guys that maintain my Cirrus (still for sale!) are at KGEU. The questions: I suspect the guys that maintain my Cirrus have little/no experience with LSAs. As such, is there anything I need to be aware of or warn them about when changing the tire? Where do they need to put the jack stand? I'm at home and can't picture a hard point under the wing. (Yes, I know they can just pick up the wing, but what will the airplane rest on while they have the wheel off? I suppose they could just take turns holding it up... LOL!) Any advice is appreciated! Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Maintenance manual. That's the #1 thing you could do, get them a copy, and even have it open to the appropriate pages. There are multiple jack points on these planes. Jack it properly. I am betting you have matco wheels. They are pretty standard to work with for the most part. Just make sure they know how the nordlock washers work (they make loud noises, like something is being stripped or broken, it's normal). They need to take the 3 hex screws loose, and let the rotor fall limp, and the wheel will come off once the wheel nut is removed. MAKE SURE THEY SEE THE PART IN THE MATCO MANUAL ABOUT HOW TO PUT THE WHEEL NUT BACK ON. It's so important, that matco even put out a bulletin on it. These wheels cannot be put on with the "spinning the tire" method. LS Maint manual: http://documents.flightdesignusa.com/CTLS%20MM%20rev.4.pdf Matco manual: http://static.veracart.com/matco/item_pdfs/3671/document1.pdf As a small tip, it will make it a lot easier if they use deep throat clamps to compress the tire. It's very common to pinch the tubes without pre-compressing the tube and tire around the bead before inserting the wheel halves. Matco's document on this: http://static.veracart.com/matco/item_pdfs/3734/document1.pdf If you have the marc ingegno wheels (gold rims), just follow the LS maintenance manual. There's also a little bit on the matco wheels at the end of the LS manual, it should be used in combination with the matco manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Kevin, the tie down ring on the wing is the area you want to put support under. If you have a step ladder that is the right height, just have a husky guy push up on the wing to get the landing gear off the ground and slide a step ladder or airplane jack under the tie down ring and let the ring rest on the ladder/jack. If it's a jack, insure that the ring doesn't slide off the jack and let the wing fall on the jack tube! I'm not that big of a person and I can lift my wing enough to get a step ladder underneath. If you have the Italian rims, these are "V" sections and it shouldn't be a big deal to get a new tire and tube on the rim. If you've got Matco rims, these are flat and it's very easy to get a tube pinched between the rim halves. I use 3 or 4 pistol grip clamps to pinch the tire with tube inside to keep the tube inside the tire and off the rim while tightening the rim bolts. After the rim bolts are tightened and the rim halves are tight together and not pinching the tube, remove the clamps and inflate the tire. Note revised after seeing Corey's remarks. Good advice to review those links he's shown! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Kevin, the tie down ring on the wing is the area you want to put support under. On LS models, you can also use a car jack on the bottom of the gear leg to raise the plane, then put a 6 foot step ladder with a towel under the wing near the tiedown on the spar. I really don't recommend lifting the plane by hand because it's not good for your back (I injured myself doing this), and the skin, while strong, could still flex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downs Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 do a search for "flat tires". It was in 2011. There was a thread and there are pictures of a jack stand I made. It makes it real simple. I carry one in the plane all the time. I just checked and found it but don't know how to get you there except a search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 here it is..... great idea http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/1107-flat-tires/?hl=%2Bjack+%2Btire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 I have used both the ladder and the jack method. If I have someone to move the ladder I prefer that method. I put a piece of white styrofoam that is bigger than the top of the ladder between the ladder and the wing, and make sure it is placed on the spar. I have found that if you have the lightweight tubes with the small tires on the Matco wheels it is real easy to pinch the tube, but if you have the heavy tubes they do a better job of staying out of the way. One other thing, if it is setting with a flat tire the fuel will drain to the low wing. If you have to much onboard it will spill out of the vent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Do not let them lose any brake fluid or introduce air into the lines. Unless they have experience with bleeding the CTs brakes,..they will not be able to correctly do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 CT brake bleeding with either brake set is quite easy and quick and all air can be evacuated without any hassle. For $10 you can do it as if you had a $300 brake bleeder machine. It's fast and works like a charm. You should be able to bleed totally dry brake lines in minutes. After a brake job I can do it with zero air left in the system in about 10 minutes and that's just because I have to move to the other side of the plane. Bug Sprayer ($10), A.K.A brake bleeder from Ace Aviation. Pour the fluid in, pump it up, attach a water bottle with a plastic hose on it to the brake reservoir in the baggage compartment for over flow, then attach the hose to the brake bleed nipple from your handy dandy pressure tank and depress the nozzle and in 2-4 seconds you have bled that side of the brakes. Then do the same on the other. Piece of Cake. Tires are easy. I have done it this way for 15 years. How to mount a tire the easy way.pdf brake flush over flow bottle.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Do not let them lose any brake fluid or introduce air into the lines. Unless they have experience with bleeding the CTs brakes,..they will not be able to correctly do it. CT brakes aren't special; they aren't different from any other system I have bled so far. I did it my first time having done nothing but a helicopter rotor brake prior, and haven't had an issue with any other brake system either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 p.s. Don't forget to balance any tire you change. An unbalanced front tire will cause vibration. When I do a tire change or a wing inspection I will either use a 6' ladder and or an engine jack with a tire mounted on top. If I use a ladder on one side and the jack on the other I can do a wing inspection by myself. Here is a pic from our form and from another user. This works well and as tom mentioned don't leave the high wing up long on a tire or brake change if you have close to full tanks. The nice thing about the jack is you can lower the plane high wing while changing the tire on the wheel so you won't transfer too much fuel and over flow the opposite wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZAV8OR Posted December 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Thanks to all for the great advice! This is just one why I enjoy being part of this community! Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJS Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 I use scissors jack.Wieslaw2012 CTLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
207WF Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Important to be careful not to pinch the tube between the two halves of the matco wheels. It is very easy to do, and even the best among us have pinched them. I always order a spare tube these days, on the assumption I will pinch one. WF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 CT brakes aren't special; they aren't different from any other system I have bled so far. I did it my first time having done nothing but a helicopter rotor brake prior, and haven't had an issue with any other brake system either. They are different than other planes. We lost the master cylinder after 20 hours on the plane and tried to have an A&P bleed the brakes to test them, he couldn't do it. It took a CT experienced guy to do it. I think they are bled backward or something? I don't remember the issue, but it wasn't done like a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Brakes are bled of air from the bottom up otherwise you couldn't get rid of the air. Bottom to top. Any mechanic should know how to do this. I did it this way when I was 16 years of age to my motorcycles. Some used to fill from the top and just pump the brakes, but you can get trapped air this way. If you fill from the top down the air bubbles will try and seek the high point and the fluid will allow it to travel back to the high points. Flow fluid from the bottom with some speed and the air is pushed in front of the fluid and out at the top. Just did a Polaris Razor 800 UTV and did it from the bottom up. The instructions on are the Matco website and manual. When I don't know how to do something the first place I go is the MFG's website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 They are different than other planes. We lost the master cylinder after 20 hours on the plane and tried to have an A&P bleed the brakes to test them, he couldn't do it. It took a CT experienced guy to do it. I think they are bled backward or something? I don't remember the issue, but it wasn't done like a car. They are bled from the bottom up at the lowest endpoint in the system. As an example, in the case of the helicopter rotor brake where the reservoir is the lowest endpoint, and fluid is added and pumped out at the brake nipples. Either the cylinder was installed incorrectly, or he never bled brakes in his life. Or he forgot to take the brake lock off I will admit that the first time I got my matcos, they were dry as a bone and I had to use air pressure first to move the piston, and I had to ask for advice on that. My little hand pump couldn't generate the pressure. But in your case, the master cylinder was replaced, and there's nothing special about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 You think bleeding the brakes on a CT is tough, try a Piper Cherokee. It has 5 master cylinders, 3 in series for each side with one being shared that like to trap air. Even with pressure from the bottom to push the fluid it still gets air trapped in the master cylinders. You have to either unhook the master cylinder and tip it to get the air out or open the line at the master cylinder with pressure in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I was having a heck of a time getting the brakes on my BMW K1200RS to bleed after replacing the brake lines. And that's an early one with the simpler system. Bought this from Harbor Freight for about $30: http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-fluid-bleeder-92924.html Uses an air hose to create a venturi to suck the fluid through the system from the caliper. Worked in minutes. On the Sky Arrow I just used a pump to pump the fluid in backwards from the caliper - that worked as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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