gbigs Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 2-13-2014 Andrew Liptak, 73, from North Carolina was in the Velocity aircraft when he saw the pilot door open and tried to make a u-turn and land at Sebastian Municipal Airport in Florida. John Abraham, chief pilot of Velocity, said: 'He could have continued flying, but he tried to make a 180-degree turn to land, and he hit the ground, went into the trees and totaled the plane. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2952936/Pilot-crashes-experimental-homemade-aircraft-near-airport-runway-trying-make-u-turn-noticing-pilot-s-door-flung-open.html#ixzz3Rk8F8g75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 This isn't an impossible turn attempt it is a loss of control while distracted by an open door and trying to maneuver close to the ground in a canard aircraft the he owned for only 2 weeks. The impossible turn involves a loss of power, with power it becomes infinitely possible. Maybe the open door was banging around and getting damaged creating an unfortunate sense of urgency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Trying to compare this to an impossible turn is like saying airplanes crash because they are moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 It's an impossible turn, a full 180 turn close to the ground attempting to get back to the airport on takeoff. An engine out is not a distraction? Read the chief pilots advise: 'He could have continued flying, but he tried to make a 180-degree turn to land, and he hit the ground, went into the trees and totaled the plane.' The lesson? Even with FULL power this turn resulted in a crash. You guys are too much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpiper Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 "They arrived at the scene and dragged Mr Lpitak out of the cockpit. He was taken to hospital but escaped without serious injury. " Glad the pilot is OK. But, Cecil definitely suffered a brain injury. I always enjoy reading local press accounts of aircraft accidents.. Usually good for a laugh. I wonder if they re-captured the pilot after he escaped from the hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 The lesson? Even with FULL power this turn resulted in a crash. You guys are too much... The common element in this community is Flight Design's Light Sport Aircraft. Many pilots of LSA are capable of maneuvering near the ground. This was a case of pilot error and in fact his error was to attempt the turn given his time in type, skill level and nature of the problem ( open door ). At some level you have a point but it is misleading. If for instance my right door popped open on departure and then failed to stabilize I would be able to make a low altitude turn back while maintaining control. I know this from my experience. To me the lesson here is to know your airplane and how to fly it, an open door isn't reason to crash into a tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 I once landed on a dirt road, inside of the pattern at Mammoth due to a failed door latch and a door that was deforming against the wing. The landing was a touch and go due to the need to avoid a head-on with a cowboy in a pick up and I next landed on the runway. It looked like a scene from a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 It's an impossible turn, a full 180 turn close to the ground attempting to get back to the airport on takeoff. An engine out is not a distraction? Read the chief pilots advise: 'He could have continued flying, but he tried to make a 180-degree turn to land, and he hit the ground, went into the trees and totaled the plane.' The lesson? Even with FULL power this turn resulted in a crash. You guys are too much... I can tell you with certainty that I have made 180° turns at low altitude back to the same runway I took off from. It is not impossible, especially with power. You provided the whole key to this accident in your first post with the quote from the Velocity chief pilot. The simple truth is the distracted pilot failed to fly the airplane. The accident could have happened even if he had went straight ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Years ago I was taking off from Las Vegas, NM in my Cherokee 180 on a clear winter morning. All was right with world and as I was climbing out heard very loud noises that I couldn't identify. Didn't seem to be engine related but neither my wife nor I could identify it so I turned around at maybe 700 AGL and landed. We figured it out on rollout: the Cherokee still had a speaker for the radio in the plane and my wife had inadvertently changed the intercom to 'both'. The speaker was spewing static at a pretty good volume and the squelch of our headsets had it filtered out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 180° Turn with engine still making good power = not impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 It's an impossible turn, a full 180 turn close to the ground attempting to get back to the airport on takeoff. An engine out is not a distraction? Read the chief pilots advise: 'He could have continued flying, but he tried to make a 180-degree turn to land, and he hit the ground, went into the trees and totaled the plane.' The lesson? Even with FULL power this turn resulted in a crash. You guys are too much... Hmmm...PTS requires 360° turn around a point at pattern altitude or less. I guess it's impossible to get a pilot certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 The simple truth is the distracted pilot failed to fly the airplane. The accident could have happened even if he had went straight ahead. In fact, that exact thing happened at my home field. A Baron took off, pilot distracted by a door popping open. Continued his straight out climb while fiddling with the door, and ran the airspeed right into a stall/spin. Two dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 This thread should be pinned, so that newbies can understand the full extent of Hamburger's wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Check out the Steep Spirals that are a required maneuver for every Commercial applicant. Steep Spiral (ASEL and ASES) Reference: FAA-H-8083-3. Exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to a steep spiral, not to exceed 60° angle of bank to maintain a constant radius about a point.Selects an altitude sufficient to continue through a series of at least three 360° turns. Selects a suitable ground reference point.Applies wind-drift correction to track a constant radius circle around selected reference point with bank not to exceed 60° at steepest point in turn.Divides attention between airplane control and ground track, while maintaining coordinated flight.Maintains the specified airspeed, ±10 knots, rolls out toward object or specified heading, ±10°. Anyway, whether its an open door or a popped canopy or a hornet's nest or, God forbid, snakes, rule number one is to fly the plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Anyway, whether its an open door or a popped canopy or a hornet's nest or, God forbid, snakes, rule number one is to fly the plane. But not zombies...SURELY nobody expects you to keep flying the airplane when there are zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 But not zombies...SURELY nobody expects you to keep flying the airplane when there are zombies. First rule of zombies: You do NOT talk about Zombies. And don't call me Surely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 100 Hamburger always generates the most entertaining threads to read... ....keep up the good work, Cecil!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Kinda defines hubris, doesn't he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 I have just read my post in the context of the thread and I didn't mean it to sound sarcastic. Cecil's comments have sparked some really interesting debates, and discussion is what this site is all about, after all. I genuinely value his contribution because I have almost always taken something away from his contributions, even if it's usually from the responses he generates. And the verbal jousting is always entertaining to read - sometimes I've laughed out loud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I thought it was about information. At least it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 You're right, it is all about information. And the most effective way to inform is to do it in an entertaining way. Congratulations to this forum - and to all who participate - for achieving that. I really do enjoy it, and I've learned a ton along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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