Bobby CAU Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Dear Fellow CTFlier, I had experience most of my flight my left fuel tank always less much compare to right and it caused un balance for me. Anyone experience this and any idea of the solution?. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 This topic and discussion goes back to 2006 and is revisited every few years with new owners. This discussion usually goes at least 10 pages and comes down to someone blaming FD. Many CT owners have one tank that drains faster than the other. It is a by product of a flat fuel tank and the fact that many instrument panels and or instruments are not perfectly squared up to the plane. Too many people also press on the instrument panel when exiting the plane which over time will distort alignment too. My left tank drains 3 times faster than my right. I fly 1/2 ball out to the left and when I'm dome flying my tanks are fairly equal. remember this: The fuel will follow the ball. Usually for most people 1/2 ball out to the faster draining tank makes things fairly equal. If you have a really low fuel tank (lets say the left tank) with lots of fuel still in the right tank you can fly 1 full ball out to the left and the fuller right tank will feed the engine and transfer fuel back into the left tank. It isn't a fast process, but it works very well. Owners with GA aircraft have experienced this and it isn't any thing new. Knowing this will keep you from ever having a fuel issue in either wing. This isn't a big deal, but when this subject is brought up every few years someone makes it one. It's an easy problem to solve and work with. Several have tried to correct it and only a few have won. It is more a function of a flat design fuel tank. CT4ME just used this on his flight down to Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby CAU Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thanks Roger. Very appreciate it. Will give you report after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Gotta say, testing the method I've been able to control the flow the fuel quite positively. With the ball out maybe 1/2, it will definitely draw from the "upper" wing more. With the ball a whole ball out, it not only draws from the upper wing, but transfers fuel to the other tank. YMMV. I'm with Roger on the ball position being questionable. All it would take is a continuous 1/4 ball out to feed uneven. I have to think that side winds play a bit with the fuel flow, as I swear it has drawn more from one sdte going one direction... then the opposite was true on the way back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think it's a shame that we have Dynon D120s that calculates fuel burn down to .1 of a gallon, but 4 1/2 hours into a flight the fuel starts dancing in the sight tubes and you can't be sure what you have in each tank. A selector valve would give you the ability to know what is in each tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C ICEY Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Try the "Die/None 2000" method! 20 litre jerry cans at 1 can per planned hour, one extra jerry can for reserve unless there is measurable fuel in the tubes level on the ground. Any fuel beyond that is great, any less is foolish..... You don't even need to look at the tubes, just your watch. if landing with uneven tanks is a problem, I'd say best get out and learn how to fly your airplane. If you are flying it long enough for one tank to completely drain then you got some work to do. galloons per hour..... you guys are a hoot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby CAU Posted March 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 hi Roger, to move the ball we will use rudder right, any idea if we can center the ball with no rudder needed?. just my thought. thanks before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Just move the ball via the rudder. You can use the trim wheel to maintain this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby CAU Posted March 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hello Roger, Thanks. I thought we CTSW only equipt with stabilizer trim and ailerons?. Does rudder comes along?. Please advise ok, appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 All I have seen(including mine) have three trim wheels. Aileron, stabilator, and rudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Just trim the rudder trim wheel over to apply a little more pre-load on the right rudder to maintain 1/2 ball out to the left for a faster feeding left wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I never move the aileron or rudder trim. The elevator trim is electric in my plane and I use it in all phases of flight, takeoff, cruise and landings. I use the autopilot to keep the ball centered in cruise. When flying manually during takeoff and decent, trimming aileron and rudder will likely be tenuous and short-lived. During cruise, if you lack the autopilot then you have no choice but to turn the manual wheels for them if you don't want to keep constant pressure and attention on the ball. Wind gusts and changing wind direction will keep you moving those wheels though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I never move the aileron or rudder trim. The elevator trim is electric in my plane and I use it in all phases of flight, takeoff, cruise and landings. I use the autopilot to keep the ball centered in cruise. When flying manually during takeoff and decent, trimming aileron and rudder will likely be tenuous and short-lived. During cruise, if you lack the autopilot then you have no choice but to turn the manual wheels for them if you don't want to keep constant pressure and attention on the ball. Wind gusts and changing wind direction will keep you moving those wheels though. Do you have a yaw dampener? In other words, a three axis autopilot with three servos? With a normal two-axis autopilot the system will not keep the airplane coordinated in any phase of flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I never move the aileron or rudder trim. The elevator trim is electric in my plane and I use it in all phases of flight, takeoff, cruise and landings. I use the autopilot to keep the ball centered in cruise. When flying manually during takeoff and decent, trimming aileron and rudder will likely be tenuous and short-lived. During cruise, if you lack the autopilot then you have no choice but to turn the manual wheels for them if you don't want to keep constant pressure and attention on the ball. Wind gusts and changing wind direction will keep you moving those wheels though. Do you have the faintest idea of the correct use of trim in flight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Another "Stick and Rudder Moment"? Re: Trim affected by winds aloft. They just keep coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 That instructor pilot must have gone through hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 burger, be nice to your ap servos, if the plane isn't well trimmed you have to fight the out of trim condition when you hand fly as you noted. simply turning it over to your AP when poorly trimmed turns over the job of fighting the out of trim condition(s) with your servos. a good exercise is to turn of the AP from time to time and perfect the trim and then give it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 burger, be nice to your ap servos, if the plane isn't well trimmed you have to fight the out of trim condition when you hand fly as you noted. simply turning it over to your AP when poorly trimmed turns over the job of fighting the out of trim condition(s) with your servos. a good exercise is to turn of the AP from time to time and perfect the trim and then give it back. Great, that is what I have been doing intuitively. It is good to get confirmation ! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 burger, be nice to your ap servos, if the plane isn't well trimmed you have to fight the out of trim condition when you hand fly as you noted. simply turning it over to your AP when poorly trimmed turns over the job of fighting the out of trim condition(s) with your servos. a good exercise is to turn of the AP from time to time and perfect the trim and then give it back. My AP (TruTrak Digiflight IIVS) annunciates with a visual display when it needs up or down trim, and then stops when it has what it needs. Does your AP not have that feature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Do you have a yaw dampener? In other words, a three axis autopilot with three servos? With a normal two-axis autopilot the system will not keep the airplane coordinated in any phase of flight. It's two axis and the ball stays centered when the autopilot is active. In fact, I have set the autopilot when the ball was half out and the autopilot brought it back to center in a xwind. (note. the aileron and rudder trim wheels are left permanently centered and never touched. the autopilot will make occasional yellow warning light demands to set the elevator trim up or down) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 It's two axis and the ball stays centered when the autopilot is active. In fact, I have set the autopilot when the ball was half out and the autopilot brought it back to center in a xwind. (note. the aileron and rudder trim wheels are left permanently centered and never touched. the autopilot will make occasional yellow warning light demands to set the elevator trim up or down) If you don't have a yaw dampener, your airplane is flying in coordination by happenstance. You cannot fly in coordination at all times without rudder control, either human or automated. It's, you know...physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 If you don't have a yaw dampener, your airplane is flying in coordination by happenstance. You cannot fly in coordination at all times without rudder control, either human or automated. It's, you know...physics. If the autopilot gets it right then it rather implies that the human being flying doesn't quite understand what the rudder pedals are for and how to achieve coordinated flight doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 It's two axis and the ball stays centered when the autopilot is active. In fact, I have set the autopilot when the ball was half out and the autopilot brought it back to center in a xwind. (note. the aileron and rudder trim wheels are left permanently centered and never touched. the autopilot will make occasional yellow warning light demands to set the elevator trim up or down) That could be true if the 2 axis where pitch and yaw but unfortunately you have pitch and roll. Of course you know that a steady state xwind has no effect on your ball being centered or not. How do you think your AP accomplishes the centering of the ball without having access to the rudder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 My AP (TruTrak Digiflight IIVS) annunciates with a visual display when it needs up or down trim, and then stops when it has what it needs. Does your AP not have that feature? My AP is dumb it just fights the pitch trim until I give it a break. I have a really cool setting where I can reverse the direction that it moves the stick, with this set backwards the AP rolls the plane inverted. If you turn the gain way up it does it really fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 If the autopilot gets it right then it rather implies that the human being flying doesn't quite understand what the rudder pedals are for and how to achieve coordinated flight doesn't it? Kinda like when you take your hands and feet off of the controls the plane begins to fly real nice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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