FastEddieB Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Top Cat, I'm busy with "honey do" projects right now, so I'll answer in stages... The 16 hour course I took now shows as $400 - I think it was a tad less a few years ago: http://www.sportaviationspecialties.com/LSA_Repairman_Courses.htm#Course_Fee Looks like he's only conducting courses as demand permits. This is the course that permits one to do annual condition inspections on an E-LSA that one owns. It has nothing to do with maintenance, since no classes or ratings are required to work in Experimentals. More to follow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I'll say more later, but nowhere near $8k in tools to do annual condition inspections and basic maintenance on a Light Sport - even if one had zero tools to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I'll say more later, but nowhere near $8k in tools to do annual condition inspections and basic maintenance on a Light Sport - even if one had zero tools to start. Thanks Eddie, Currently I own an SLSA so restricted to doing just preventative stuff. No sure if I'd go ELSA hence the questions about the courses and the tools. It'd be interesting to see what it might involve, cost-wise etc I currently have a LSRM/A&P/AI mechanic do the maintenance so I may just stay this way. Appreciate your help, no rush…especially if in the middle of "honey says, Eddies does". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Currently I own an SLSA so restricted to doing just preventative stuff. No sure if I'd go ELSA hence the questions about the courses and the tools. It'd be interesting to see what it might involve, cost-wise etc I currently have a LSRM/A&P/AI so I may just stay this way. Appreciate your help, no rush…especially if in the middle of "honey says, Eddies does". Jeep steps mounted - check Ceiling fans hung - check Hummingbird feeders hung - check Now, where were we? I can see Roger spending a lot on tools - its his livelihood/passion. Not hard to spend tens of thousands of dollars on SnapOn or MAC tools. For mere mortals, all it takes initially is basic mechanic's tools - socket sets (metric and SAE), combination wrenches, torque wrench, screwdrivers, pliers, hammers, that sort of thing. I've had good luck with Craftman and generic tools from Home Depot or even Harbor Freight or Northern Tool for most things. Even starting from scratch, $1,000 should cover all the basics. In addition, I find a work bench, bench vise, a drill press, a battery powered drill, a grinding wheel, some mobile carts, jacks and jack stands and a Dremel tool handy, plus lots of little stuff like inspection mirrors and grabby tools and measuring stuff and a voltmeter and the like. A compressor is handy as well, and access to one will be needed for compression checking. Not all that much specialized equipment for basic routine maintenance on a ROTAX. Off hand... Differential compression tester Carb synch device Oil filter cutter Safety wire tool and safety wire Probably less than $250 for all of the above. And misc supplies like heat transfer paste for the spark plugs, TorqueSeal, Loctite, and all the miscellaneous lubes and greases. Since annuals were costing me in excess of $700 each, just one or two of those done myself would just about pay for all the stuff listed above. Truth be told I had a pretty complete set of tools I bought for my N GA home when it was a vacation home. Now that I've consolidated I have fairly complete sets at both the house and the hangar. I'm sure I'm forgetting some basics, but I'll count on Roger to add to the list. Next time I'm at the hangar I'll maybe get some pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 I can see Roger spending a lot on tools - its his livelihood/passion. Not hard to spend tens of thousands of dollars on SnapOn or MAC tools. For mere mortals, all it takes initially is basic mechanic's tools - socket sets (metric and SAE), combination wrenches, torque wrench, screwdrivers, pliers, hammers, that sort of thing. I've had good luck with Craftman and generic tools from Home Depot or even Harbor Freight or Northern Tool for most things. Even starting from scratch, $1,000 should cover all the basics. In addition, I find a work bench, bench vise, a drill press, a battery powered drill, a grinding wheel, some mobile carts, jacks and jack stands and a Dremel tool handy, plus lots of little stuff like inspection mirrors and grabby tools and measuring stuff and a voltmeter and the like. A compressor is handy as well, and access to one will be needed for compression checking. Not all that much specialized equipment for basic routine maintenance on a ROTAX. Off hand... Differential compression tester Carb synch device Oil filter cutter Safety wire tool and safety wire Probably less than $250 for all of the above. And misc supplies like heat transfer paste for the spark plugs, TorueSeal, Loctite, and all the miscellaneous lubes and greases. Since annuals were costing me in excess of $700 each, just one or two of those done myself would just about pay for all the stuff listed above Truth be told I had a pretty complete set of tools I bought for my N GA home when it was a vacation home. Now that I've consolidated I have fairly complete sets at both the house and the hangar. I'm sure I'm forgetting some basics, but I'll count on Roger to add to the list. Next time I'm at the hangar I'll maybe get some pictures. Thanks Eddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 The nice thing about composite aircraft, is tooling is relatively cheap. For those of us that also work on metal, wood, and rag & tube, things get REALLY expensive quick. Also, STRONG RECOMMENDATION: do not cheap out on hex key wrenches/or hex key sockets! I *HATE* hex head bolts because they like to round out, and cheap wrenches that don't fit snugly makes it happen very easily. Or, if it uses cheap tool steel, the wrench/socket key will round off and chew up a bunch of your screw heads before you notice what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Hi Eddie, You got me thinking about cost of tools and schooling with your post. For my education on LSA and Rotax. My schooling is up around $30K+ with another $5K in May. Then it is an ongoing class every two years for Rotax. Sometimes I go to a class 1-2 times a year. Things change and you can never learn everything you need to known 1-2 classes. I have about $10K in tools. Tools: Large and very small screwdrivers both flat to and Phillips. Hose cutters , dental picks, all kinds of pliers larger,small, short, long and spring clamp pliers. Different types of sealants and sealers Metric and standard open end and box end wrenches, tiny metric wrenchs 1/4", 3/8"and some 1/2" metric and standard sockets Crows foot metric wrench heads Balled 6" Allen wrenchs. On 1-2 bolts on the Rotqx it's the only thing that will fit. Metric 3/8" Allen socket wrenchs A good digital torque wrench A good cordless drill and flashlight and sharp drill bits Long reach magnet A complete assortment of hose clamps and application pliers or the like. Oetiker, Band-It and Urth raised clamps A Dremel tool (indispensable) with cut off blades and sanding drums Rivnut tool, pop rivet gun Carb sync gauges, compression tester with 12mm plug adapter. Goggles and hearing protection. Assortment of hammers, large small plastic and steel Prop adjusting tools Full set of hand 6" Allen metric and standard wrenchs. (All steel) Voltmeter Small hand butane torch Digital fishing spring scale for measuring the overload friction torque in the gearbox and 1-2 other things. This should get you started. These won't be enough if you want to do any specialty work that would require a special tool. p.s. Don't leave out the schooling which is just not the 16 hr. Class. I have taken that. If that's all you took it would be a joke to really helping you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Wow, thanks guys! Awesome info and a lot to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Balled 6" Allen wrenchs. On 1-2 bolts on the Rotqx it's the only thing that will fit. In regards to ball allens: this especially is something you don't want to go cheap on. Get the nicest set you can from a high quality tool maker. They have a tendency to snap off at the base of the ball, and it's a f****** b**** to remove them. Try to avoid using them whenever possible because they will wear into the relatively soft bolt head steel. Also, you forgot spring scale!!! > Oetiker, Band-It and Urth raised clamps Fix the spelling, I think you meant Wurth And, a personal favorite: a borescope. It's in the "nice to have" category, but it's my go-to when I need to look in cramped spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Wow, thanks guys! Awesome info and a lot to think about. x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Thanks Corey, Fixed scale info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Hereford Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 A borescope is a profit maker. It also allows for non-invasive inspections of many nooks and crannies. If you are trying to make money in aircraft maintenance, it is a must. If you are a maintenance minimalist like me, you will think of it like a mirror and flashlight (most commonly used tools in my tool box). Buy the best one you can afford to, and use it often. Corey, I think of ball-allens like the super-models of tools. They are delicate, need a bunch of attention, and usually wind up being more trouble than they are worth. I have about 10-20 minutes at a time where they are valuable to be....................if you know what I mean. Doug Hereford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 OK, took some photos of my somewhat modest "Man Cave": (all can be enlarged by clicking on them) (note the spring scale, upper left!) Gets the job done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 I want to try and make an articulating one. The prices on those things is crazy high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 There is one bolt on the Rotax engine on the case that is only accessible by a 6" ball Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Jefts Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Eddie, My workshop is not quite as sophisticated as yours but it gets the job done. If not - that's when I call Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Of the items pictured, you really only need two. If it moves and it's not supposed to - duct tape. If it doesn't move and it is supposed to - WD 40. Everything else is just showing off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 By the way, a fish scale is useful for something else too. You can use it to check calibration on your torque wrench. Torque is just arm x weight (simplification). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 By the way, a fish scale is useful for something else too. You can use it to check calibration on your torque wrench. Torque is just arm x weight (simplification). And you can check the calibration of your fish scale with your torque wrench! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Hereford Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 I routinely cross check the calibration of one meter against another one. I would recommend however that all equipment used to take measurements undergo annual calibration verification using procedures that are traceable to NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology). Most any commercial calibration lab has this credential. The one that I use actually comes to the hangar in an RV with the lab set up in the back. Doug Hereford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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