Doug G. Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 I seem to recall something negative about using locktight on Nylock nuts, it came from Brian Carpenter. Did anyone else hear that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 It was probably considered to be a "cheap fix" for worn fiber nuts. If a fiber nut can be moved by hand fully engaged, it's junk and should be thrown away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 I think it has to do with 1) the inability to reach proper torque with the locktite and, 2) locktite can damage the plastic in the nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 When rod ends are involved, especially with soft plastic inserts, the torque spec is "snug" unless otherwise specified. It's so you don't bulge the bearing in the rod and prevent rotation. So point 1 is moot, and point two doesn't matter since the locktite that I applied is much stronger than the fiber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco01 Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Have a look at this video done by my mechanic: CTSW 2007 / 1000 hours. I never done the test before, and never though I needed to check the rear bolt... Now I do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Great video - including the sound effects. Thanks for superimposing the translation. "A picture video tells a thousand words"! The information I've seen in this thread leaves no doubt that I will check for fastener integrity on my CT (immediately and periodically). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Meade Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Have a look at this video done by my mechanic: CTSW 2007 / 1000 hours. I never done the test before, and never though I needed to check the rear bolt... Now I do!Did you feel the stabilator being loose in flight? Are the dams on your stabilator standard in Europe? I'm not familiar with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 exactly the same problem as mine.. that was at landing that I noticed it. (pulling on the stick..the cable (teleflex) was moving forward) merci Marco01 for the video Jim, I have seen the 'dam' only on European model ..Marc will tell if they are standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 When rod ends are involved, especially with soft plastic inserts, the torque spec is "snug" unless otherwise specified. It's so you don't bulge the bearing in the rod and prevent rotation. So point 1 is moot, and point two doesn't matter since the locktite that I applied is much stronger than the fiber. Corey, I don't think I have seen any rod ends with soft plastic inserts on a CT. I also don't find any notes about torque for rod ends, other than the standard torque for the size bolt being used. In my experience rod ends with a steel ball get standard torque for the size bolt being used. The whole purpose for using a rod end is so the bolt can be tightened down, allowing rotation without wearing out the holes or fastener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco01 Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Did you feel the stabilator being loose in flight?Are the dams on your stabilator standard in Europe? I'm not familiar with them. i have felt one time strange vibration while,going done with high speed in turbulence... Few days weeks after, FD published a CN that VNE was set to 225Km/h max until stab modification is down (compensating stab needed to be shorten + vertical dam to be added). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco01 Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 i have felt one time strange vibration while,going done with high speed in turbulence... Few days weeks after, FD published a CN that VNE was set to 225Km/h max until stab modification is down (compensating stab needed to be shorten + vertical dam to be added). this CN only apply to CTSW made for Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Andy, interesting to see the short anti-servo and Marco's comments. I have ordered ball ends from FD in both the 5mm and 6mm size. My experience with these joints both from the factory and replacements shows all have steel throughout the joints. I have not seen any plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Corey, I don't think I have seen any rod ends with soft plastic inserts on a CT. I also don't find any notes about torque for rod ends, other than the standard torque for the size bolt being used. In my experience rod ends with a steel ball get standard torque for the size bolt being used. The whole purpose for using a rod end is so the bolt can be tightened down, allowing rotation without wearing out the holes or fastener. The aileron and flaps in the hinges use plastic bearings on our planes, I meant to also include those in that statement. I'll doublecheck, but I'm pretty sure that rod was plastic too (was dark outside and I only had a flashlight trying to look down in there). I don't remember seeing a bearing surface on the bellcrank either, and I didn't want to torque it down and possibly lock up the flight controls if the rod end seized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Marco01, would you have the link (info) on your trim tab mod I have found this http://www.daec.de/fileadmin/user_upload/files/2012/luftsportgeraete_buero/LTA/61151/Anlage_LSG_12_003.pdf but it looks like 3 years ago...is it the right one.... just curious I alreay have the short trim tab on my 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco01 Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Marco01, would you have the link (info) on your trim tab mod I have found this http://www.daec.de/fileadmin/user_upload/files/2012/luftsportgeraete_buero/LTA/61151/Anlage_LSG_12_003.pdf but it looks like 3 years ago...is it the right one.... just curious I alreay have the short trim tab on my 2005 Yes that's the right one: I was late to get the modification done, but OK until I don't go over 225km/h. If you have already the short trim tab, nothing to be done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 so, It,s Ok to have a short one. .I like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 The aileron and flaps in the hinges use plastic bearings on our planes, I meant to also include those in that statement. I'll doublecheck, but I'm pretty sure that rod was plastic too (was dark outside and I only had a flashlight trying to look down in there). I don't remember seeing a bearing surface on the bellcrank either, and I didn't want to torque it down and possibly lock up the flight controls if the rod end seized. Like I said before I don't think I have ever seen a plastic rod end on a CT. The bellcrank doesn't have a bearing, nor does it need one. That is what the bearing in the rod end is for. By design the rod end should be tight against the bellcrank. Personally I would be concerned with it being loose rather than to tight. The way the design is if it is loose you will be working the bolt and creating a possible catastrophic failure point. At least that is the way I see it based on 35 years working on airplanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Have a look at this video done by my mechanic: CTSW 2007 / 1000 hours. I never done the test before, and never though I needed to check the rear bolt... Now I do! Make sure you report your findings to your distributor. It's definitely something FD should look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Like I said before I don't think I have ever seen a plastic rod end on a CT. The bellcrank doesn't have a bearing, nor does it need one. That is what the bearing in the rod end is for. By design the rod end should be tight against the bellcrank. Personally I would be concerned with it being loose rather than to tight. The way the design is if it is loose you will be working the bolt and creating a possible catastrophic failure point. At least that is the way I see it based on 35 years working on airplanes. I wouldn't say it's loose. I've tightened it to "snug", which means there isn't any play, but I'm not binding anything either. I'm waiting for a response from Arian about the torque spec of that bolt anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 I'm still confused as to which bolt we're talking about...the big nut on the other end of the rod end, that attaches to the upright cable guide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Andy. Both the 6mm nut which fastens the rod end to the bell crank and the large nut which connects the teleflex cable to the aluminum bracket are shown to have loosened up in the thread. Jacques photos have arrows pointing to both of the fasteners and Marcos video shows the loose nut on the teleflex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 I would like to try to sum up what has been reported for my own benefit. The lock nut which fastens the 6mm bolt used to connect the rod end and also the large nut which connects the teleflex cable to the stationary aluminum bracket are being reported to have have loosened up. Corey started the thread by reporting he found the nut had backed off the 6mm bolt which fastens the rod end in the front tunnel area. Both Jacques and Marcos report that the nut which secures the teleflex cable to the aluminum bracket had backed off resulting in a loose cable. Jacques photos has arrows pointing to both the 10mm nut and also the large nut which fastens the teleflex. Marcos video shows the loose nut on the teleflex cable and the play in the cable resulting from this looseness. Although it's not loose, this video also shows the rod end used to connect the teleflex to the stab bracket in the foreground. The same 6mm bolt and nut used to connect the rod end and the teleflex fastening nut are used at the other end of the cable in the tunnel area. Someone please correct me if wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Hi Dick you got it right.. 2 differents ''issue'' here both related to the elevator cable system. but the problem is the same..= nuts that came loose ...because they had NO system to prevent this the 2 M6 nuts at each end should be castle nuts with cutter pins (standard practice) the big nut on the teleflex could have been ''safety wired '' to prevent loosing just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Hi Dick you got it right.. 2 differents ''issue'' here both related to the elevator cable system. but the problem is the same..= nuts that came loose ...because they had NO system to prevent this the 2 M6 nuts at each end should be castle nuts with cutter pins (standard practice) the big nut on the teleflex could have been ''safety wired '' to prevent loosing just my 2 cents I will have to lok at a parts catalog for a couple other airplanes, but I think a lock nut is pretty standard in this application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Having just done the annual on my Sky Arrow, I'm pretty sure each and every fastener in the flight control linkages is safetied in some manner, usually with castellated nuts and cotter keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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