FD Opens China Factory

[gbigs]

Flight Design USA President Tom Peghiny visited AeroJones recently to witness the completion of the company's first conforming CTLS. "We examined a batch of four AeroJones-produced prototypes," said Peghiny. "After training was conducted on composite structures, the team fabricated multiple prototypes, of which the fully conforming CTLS was the fourth built by the company."

 

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Flight-Design-To-Start-Manufacturing-In-China-223806-1.html

 

 

[CT4ME]

Different story... from AviationPros

http://www.aviationpros.com/press_release/12062032/ctls-nearing-the-start-of-new-production-in-china 

[FlyingMonkey]

It will be interesting to note any changes, positive or negative, in build quality.

 

I have heard from others who have experience with production in China, that left to their own devices, their workers tend to cut corners and produce inferior products.  However if close supervision and quality checks are in place, their products are as good as any.

 

So the CTLS will go down in price now, right?  

[WmInce]

So the CTLS will go down in price now, right?  

 

Or . . . the airplane can be built more profitably.

[Roger Lee]

I agree with Bill. Probably better profit margins with less political and physical danger that the Ukraine has now. I hope that FD sends a top quality control person there to work with them on a permanent basis. FD has too nice an aircraft to all of a sudden suffer quality issues. Looks to be a coastal port city compared to the Ukraine too.

 

Unfortunately we only get to guess at all this.

[Anticept]

A good QC makes all the difference.

[gbigs]

It will be interesting to note any changes, positive or negative, in build quality.

 

I have heard from others who have experience with production in China, that left to their own devices, their workers tend to cut corners and produce inferior products.  However if close supervision and quality checks are in place, their products are as good as any.

 

So the CTLS will go down in price now, right?  

 

All of Apples products are made in China.  How's your iPad and iPhone Mr Morden? 

 

We have been outsourcing tech and industrial manufacturing to China since the mid 80s.  There is nothing in your home Mr Morden that does not have a Chinese made component in it.  Unless you are driving a car made in the 70s and a CRT TV made in the 60s.

 

Cessna's little product did not fail because it was made in China, it failed because it was a 50 year old Cessna design unfit for the LSA market.

 

FD is using Taiwanese management in a mainland Chinese plant.  Brands using components or wholly made in China?  Garmin, AMD chips, Canon, Google products, Honda, Hyundai, Linksys, Nissan, Microsoft, Panasonic, Sony, Singer, Viewsonic, Maytag, Boeing, Mooney, Cirrus, Dynon, Cadillac, HP, Samsung, to name a fraction...

 

As a former exec in a worldwide tech manufacturing enterprise that has setup Chinese, Mexican, Brazilian, and Eastern European manufacturing in the past I can say from experience that FD is smart to make this jump.  If they manage the process well, they will simply dominate and own their niche in aviation.  All others will simply be bought by the Chinese over time and ultimately be moved to China anyway.

[Anticept]

China does need proper supervision though. But, I will say, that's pretty much anywhere that you build.

[FlyingMonkey]

All of Apples products are made in China.  How's your iPad and iPhone Mr Morden? 

 

We have been outsourcing tech and industrial manufacturing to China since the mid 80s.  There is nothing in your home Mr Morden that does not have a Chinese made component in it.  Unless you are driving a car made in the 70s and a CRT TV made in the 60s.

 

Cessna's little product did not fail because it was made in China, it failed because it was a 50 year old Cessna design unfit for the LSA market.

 

FD is using Taiwanese management in a mainland Chinese plant.  Brands using components or wholly made in China?  Garmin, AMD chips, Canon, Google products, Honda, Hyundai, Linksys, Nissan, Microsoft, Panasonic, Sony, Singer, Viewsonic, Maytag, Boeing, Mooney, Cirrus, Dynon, Cadillac, HP, Samsung, to name a fraction...

 

As a former exec in a worldwide tech manufacturing enterprise that has setup Chinese, Mexican, Brazilian, and Eastern European manufacturing in the past I can say from experience that FD is smart to make this jump.  If they manage the process well, they will simply dominate and own their niche in aviation.  All others will simply be bought by the Chinese over time and ultimately be moved to China anyway.

 

I didn't say there is anything wrong with Chinese manufacturing.  Just that Chinese manufacturing PROCESS tends to leave a lot to be desired.  All the companies you mentioned are non-Chinese companies,  managing their own manufacturing processes.   They just use cheap Chinese labor.  Do you buy cars made by Chinese companies?  Electronics?  Airplanes?  Of course not, few people do.  They have the industrial capacity, not the processes.

[Doug G.]

Electronics may be an exception in that list. Even the iPhone is made there. (Yes, I understand your point about process.) I also remember when Japanese products were all cheap and had bad reputations.

Depending on how their government acts and reacts, China may well be the leading economic/military/social power in the next century.

[liltaka]

Electronics may be an exception in that list. Even the iPhone is made there. (Yes, I understand your point about process.) I also remember when Japanese products were all cheap and had bad reputations.

Depending on how their government acts and reacts, China may well be the leading economic/military/social power in the next century.

 

What?  "Japanese products were all cheap and had bad reputations".

 

 

Yes, actually Doug, you are correct and I can testify that your statement is correct.

The only reason Japanese manufactures became better at QC was "1970s~1980s currency exchange rate".

Imagine one car or product sold in the U.S. gave Japanese manufactures 3~4 times of profit.

Then, what they did with their profit?  Bought better equipment and spent 3~4 times more on R&D.

I even read an article about how Toyota struggled in the U.S. market due to poor QC.

Jim Press said it was really terrible at the beginning, Toyota cars couldn't complete in the U.S.

[Anticept]

Depending on how their government acts and reacts, China may well be the leading economic/military/social power in the next century.

 

A lot of the issue here depends on if the government stays as hands on as it is. China is trying so hard to export its culture, but their government is trying to export their classical culture, when the world wants pop culture. The other thing is that the "White people" stereotypes are deeply ingrained. If you are a white person who can speak fluent mandarin, you can quite literally find a job just based on those merits. Chinese companies will hire Caucasians to sit on their executive boards as a way to show more "status" of their company, and use them to negotiate contracts. That's a significant cultural handicap for spreading their cultural influence.

 

As for military leader: that is a really big hump. One of the reasons the world is stable right now is due to the extreme militaristic power projection by the united states. We're quite literally the world police, for better or for worse. This has allowed many, many countries to focus on small militaries and invest significant amounts of their revenue into social and economic issues in their own country. For me, to ever consider china the leading military power, they will need to replace the US as the world police force, because gauging military strength also includes a projection component. China has very little projection power and the world is very hesitant to even allow it.

 

Economically: sure. that I don't really doubt. At least as long as labor is needed. At the rate robotics are going, there's not going to be a need for unskilled labor, and that's China's cash cow.

 

I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm just saying that China has a lot to overcome. But, their people do have the will to become the best, and that's a huge step forward. If they keep that attitude up, and remain adaptive, they'll do it.

[gbigs]

I didn't say there is anything wrong with Chinese manufacturing.  Just that Chinese manufacturing PROCESS tends to leave a lot to be desired.  All the companies you mentioned are non-Chinese companies,  managing their own manufacturing processes.   They just use cheap Chinese labor.  Do you buy cars made by Chinese companies?  Electronics?  Airplanes?  Of course not, few people do.  They have the industrial capacity, not the processes.

 

Just so you know, the Chinese work under western and Japanese management best practices.  It is brought by westerners when they setup the facilities there.  The Chinese did not have the expertise to make much of anything before the west brought the tech to them.  But they are quickly learning...and though they lacked a history of high end manufacturing, when it comes to performing the job after training and infrastructure build-out, they do just fine.

 

Notice in the FD story they did four prototype runs before okaying the full build-out of the factory.  That had to be time consuming and costly for FD to pursue.  But its smart because it gave the Chinese a chance to show they understand how to do it, and provided the needed basis to test the process before going live and have an airframe come out defective.