Should an SLSA owner make this logbook entry?

[Top Cat]

Should an SLSA owner make a logbook entry, and sign it, every time he /she does a software update?

 

For example I recently downloaded SV 12.0 and the .dfg settings files from the Vans site and then uploaded them into the Dynon Skyview.

 

Id this something that I should be entering in the logbook? If so, how would you write it?

 

On a side note…should the owner keep both an airframe logbook AND and engine logbook or is it okay to combine them into one logbook?

 

Appreciate any input, thanks!

[gbigs]

I would say simple software updates are not a log book item for either the airframe, engine or your personal flight logs.

[FredG]

Read this thread from a few years ago.  Although it starts with a question about GPS, the thread includes discussion of your question about logging software updates.

 

http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/1391-logging-gps-updates/

[Anticept]

Don't combine engine and airframe logs. The reason they are separate, is so that if you remove the engine and sell it to someone, you don't have to make a bunch of copies of logbook entries. Props should also have their own logbook too.

 

Basically, on life limited or time tracking parts, it makes it much much easier to look at a component specific logbook than trying to sift through a giant "everything" logbook. I've heard of people making separate logs for each magneto too on other engines, since they do have a lot of component maintenance performed on them.

 

Software updates should be logged. This is equivalent to altering hardware in the unit as software significantly affects operation of the device. Database updates are not customarily logged by many people, but you might decide to do so in a separate logbook for that specific device just to keep from cluttering up your airframe book. I've never heard of anyone getting strung up because they didn't write a database update entry for a GA aircraft though, and I admit, I've never thought about it until now. I feel like that's just getting a little too nickpicky.

[Doug G.]

My understanding is that an upgrade to the Dynon system is basically a change in instrumentation and must be logged and the POH must be updated also. (This does not apply to the GPS updates.)

[Top Cat]

Don't combine engine and airframe logs. The reason they are separate, is so that if you remove the engine and sell it to someone, you don't have to make a bunch of copies of logbook entries. Props should also have their own logbook too.

 

Basically, on life limited or time tracking parts, it makes it much much easier than trying to sift through a giant logbook. I've heard of people making separate logs for each magneto too on other engines, since they do have a lot of component maintenance performed on them.

 

Software updates should be logged. This is equivalent to altering hardware in the unit as software significantly affects operation of the device. Database updates are not customarily logged by many people, but you might decide to do so in a separate logbook for that specific device just to keep from cluttering up your airframe book. I've never heard of anyone getting strung up because they didn't write a database update entry for a GA aircraft though, and I admit, I've never thought about it until now. I feel like that's just getting a little too nickpicky.

Anticept,

 

  I've had my SLSA since July 2014. All maintenance entries have been put in one logbook. I just came across the Rotax engine logbook. Duuuh on me.

 

So should I go back and move the engine related items (not many mostly oil changes and one gasket replacement, and the carb float SB inspections) to the engine logbook? Or…should I just move forward from now and keep separate engine and airframe logs?

 

The reason I asked about logging the Skyview updates, for example, is the recent SV 12.0 which updated the auto-trim for the auto-pilot IF fitted with the SV Autopilot Panel, which my plane has. The update, and .dfg settings files call for the trim to be 'calibrated' using the directions in the Skyview unit after the update. Once the unit knows how the trim works and what direction it changes to 'enabled'. To me this is quite significant as far as a 'simple software update' and is deserving of logbook entry. Is this something I, a non maintenance qualified owner of an SLSA,  can enter under 'preventative maintenance?

 

Would this be how it should be written:-

 

2-2-15

 Dynon Skyview update SV 12.0 and .dfg settings files downloaded from Vans Aircraft website and uploaded into Skyview in airplane.

 

Signed: Otto Pilot  Owner/LSA pilot "123456789

 

Thanks for any input!

[Top Cat]

Read this thread from a few years ago.  Although it starts with a question about GPS, the thread includes discussion of your question about logging software updates.

 

http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/1391-logging-gps-updates/

Fred,

 

  Thanks for the link, I found it enlightening.

[Anticept]

You can make copies of the engine logs from your airframe book, and put them in the engine log. You might want to make a note in the airframe log that you have made copies and future engine logs will not be put in that airframe book. It doesn't need a signature or anything, it's just a note to anyone who goes through reading your airframe log and doesn't become curious as to why your engine entries suddenly stopped.

 

I would recommend that you do the same for your prop.

 

After that, if you want to do it for any other components, that's up to you.

[Top Cat]

One point that occurred to me was that some owners are also the builders of their experimental airplane. For example, some on the VAF site always load their Dynon updates directly from Dynon.

 

When I bought my SLSA from Vans they recommended  that I wait and upload the software from their site. They take some time to review the update for anything that pertains to the RV-12 (in my case) specifically and doesn't change any of the settings specific to the RV-12.

 

In this regard, as the owner of and SLSA if I update directly from the manufacturer using their 'version' does this make more sense if I'm logging the updates? And that I'm operating the airplane as an SLSA?

[Top Cat]

You can make copies of the engine logs from your airframe book, and put them in the engine log. You might want to make a note in the airframe log that you have made copies and future engine logs will not be put in that airframe book. It doesn't need a signature or anything, it's just a note to anyone who goes through reading your airframe log and doesn't become curious as to why your engine entries suddenly stopped.

 

I would recommend that you do the same for your prop.

 

After that, if you want to do it for any other components, that's up to you.

Thanks, good idea, that makes a lot of sense!

[gbigs]

One point that occurred to me was that some owners are also the builders of their experimental airplane. For example, some on the VAF site always load their Dynon updates directly from Dynon.

 

When I bought my SLSA from Vans they recommended  that I wait and upload the software from their site. They take some time to review the update for anything that pertains to the RV-12 (in my case) specifically and doesn't change any of the settings specific to the RV-12.

 

In this regard, as the owner of and SLSA if I update directly from the manufacturer using their 'version' does this make more sense if I'm logging the updates? And that I'm operating the airplane as an SLSA?

 

All FD owners load updates directly from Garmin and Dynon.  That still does not require a logbook entry.  However, if you have an S-LSA the manufacter dictates what software version you are to use.  In FD case we are all still on very old V.6 of the Dynons.  And are waiting for the factory to okay the more current versions on Dynon's website.

[Jim]

My S-LSA did not come from the factory with Dynon avionics.  I installed them myself (with FD approval and A&P IA signoff) and I install and configure the EFIS and EMS myself.  And make logbook entries.

[Doug G.]

If it holds to the post pattern they will not approve the Dynon issued update, they will provide their own, plus an update to the POH/AOI. This needs a logbook entry. I don't know if is an allowed owner maintenance item or not.

[N751JM]

I know it is not pertinent to the software/firmware update question of this thread, but the other (GPS database update thread) seemed to leave off before 43.3(k) was created (I'm not exactly sure when) which removed GPS database update from being maintenance of any kind (preventive or otherwise).  So, although it once did require a logbook entry as preventive maintenance, updating the GPS database per 43.3 (k) no longer does...

 

(k) Updates of databases in installed avionics meeting the conditions of this paragraph are not considered maintenance and may be performed by pilots provided:

(1) The database upload is:

(i) Initiated from the flight deck;

(ii) Performed without disassembling the avionics unit; and

(iii) Performed without the use of tools and/or special equipment.

[gbigs]

Once FD finally releases the Dynon Skyviews for update to V11 or higher the task of making that update will be non-trivial.  And will no doubt require a logbook entry.  Some may consider having an avionics shop do the work.  It will take several hours and if done incorrectly could render the equipment non-functioning.

[Duane Jefts]

Once FD finally releases the Dynon Skyviews for update to V11 or higher the task of making that update will be non-trivial.  And will no doubt require a logbook entry.  Some may consider having an avionics shop do the work.  It will take several hours and if done incorrectly could render the equipment non-functioning.

Should take 20 minutes and if you did the download properly, it's just like updating the dynon's on a regular basis.

[Top Cat]

Should take 20 minutes and if you did the download properly, it's just like updating the dynon's on a regular basis.

I recently uploaded SV 12.0 onto my RV's Skyview Touch and it was maybe 10 minutes tops.

 

SV 12.1 due out by the end of April.

[gbigs]

Should take 20 minutes and if you did the download properly, it's just like updating the dynon's on a regular basis.

 

Duane.  The update will be an hour or more.  It will require a careful process of updating in sequence (you cant just load the latest on top of old V6).   

 

There is no procedure from Dynon to guide anyone how to do this since none of their customers are in the same shape as we FD customers who are so far behind, some 6 versions.

 

Also, I would not doubt that FD provides the updates since they want to control the screen configurations and may want to lessen the chances of something going wrong.

 

If you do this yourself and damage the device, you will be on your own.

[Doug G.]

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, he is a combination of both the scarecrow and the tin man.

[Duane Jefts]

Duane.  The update will be an hour or more.  It will require a careful process of updating in sequence (you cant just load the latest on top of old V6).   

 

There is no procedure from Dynon to guide anyone how to do this since none of their customers are in the same shape as we FD customers who are so far behind, some 6 versions.

 

Also, I would not doubt that FD provides the updates since they want to control the screen configurations and may want to lessen the chances of something going wrong.

 

If you do this yourself and damage the device, you will be on your own.

Your comments went from several hours to an hour or more to update for the update.    Trust me, it is no big deal.  Look at Top Cat's post.  No big deal.  Please don't scare other folks by saying things like "damage the device".  It won't happen.  I'm done with this topic.

[gbigs]

Your comments went from several hours to an hour or more to update for the update.    Trust me, it is no big deal.  Look at Top Cat's post.  No big deal.  Please don't scare other folks by saying things like "damage the device".  It won't happen.  I'm done with this topic.

 

I have been talking to Lone Mountain and FD about this for some time.  They have made est. anywhere from between more than 1 hour to more than 2 hours.   This is a non trivial update.  I won't fight with you about it, but suggest you too contact FD about this before assuming what the task will be...our update will not be done by us, instead, we will have it done by an authorized FD avionics shop. 

[Tom Baker]

I have talked to Lone Mountain and FD about this for some time.  They have made est. anywhere from between more than 1 hour to more than 2 hours.   This is a non trivial update.  I won't fight with you about it, but suggest you too contact FD about this before assuming what the task will be...our update will not be done by us, instead, we will have it done by an authorized FD avionics shop. 

 

That is what they estimate for you. Any normal person should be less.