Rich Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 SI-912-016-R8 .pdf Looks like there's a new AeroShell sport +4 that Rotax reccomends. Red bottle. The previous +4 oil can still be used until its expiration date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Interesting, thanks! Timely in that I'm down to my last 3 quarts or so of the old formulation Aeroshell Sport 4. Hopefully after my next oil change the new stuff will be in the pipeline. Good to know about that 120° c boiling point with conventional 50/50 antifreeze. That caveat may have been there before, but convinces me that's what happened recently when I let my engine get into the yellow when warming it up for that compression check. Probably need to at least mentally move the water temp redline down to 120°. One would not reasonably assume that coolant could boil and be lost within a yellow "Caution" band. The above image was taken on a winter flight and shows the concern there is mainly getting the water, and by implication, the oil, warm enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 The new Sport Plus 4 has been re-formulated. Nothing wrong with using up the old. The people the UK where this is make wanted to tweak it some. They were going to do this a year ago, but for some reason waited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I just bought a new case, I guess it will be a while before I make the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Can I assume that mixing the two formulations is fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 It's a requirement that recip engine oils be compatible per numerous standards. Turbines do have two oil types that are not compatible, but that's getting technical EDIT: Ed, I feel you should have your CHT remarked. If the coolant is boiling off in the yellow, that to me should mean a "danger zone" and should be marked red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Hi Eddie, Fully compatible. Just a few tweaks in the additive package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 EDIT: Ed, I feel you should have your CHT remarked. If the coolant is boiling off in the yellow, that to me should mean a "danger zone" and should be marked red. Agreed. At least a red dot at 120° to remind me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Just don't forget the yellow slippage mark if you do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 SI-912-016-R8 .pdf Looks like there's a new AeroShell sport +4 that Rotax reccomends. Red bottle. The previous +4 oil can still be used until its expiration date Notice they STRONGLY advise to use with Mogas unleaded fuel. If using Mogas exclusively the best oil is Mobil 1 Motorcycle Racing 4T oil full synthetic and change every 50 hours. If you use 100LL you still need to change every 25 hours despite the new red bottle formulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olarry Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Hamburger.......Interesting. Originally, Rotax recommended Mobil 1 Racing 4T and then switched to Shell now your saying go back to the 4T as the best oil to use if burning Mogas? Recommended by Rotax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Hamburger.......Interesting. Originally, Rotax recommended Mobil 1 Racing 4T and then switched to Shell now your saying go back to the 4T as the best oil to use if burning Mogas? Recommended by Rotax? Olarry. Rotax would not recommend a full synthetic if using leaded gas. The key point is the EXCLUSIVE use of unleaded fuel, 91E10 for example or in Europe 91UL allows the use of full synthetic. Once at that point, the full synthetic Mobil 1 Motorcycle Racing 4T is recommended, at least by Rotax West. I assume you can find the same recommendation in Rotax literature somewhere. The use of unleaded gas lets you wait twice as long between oil changes. Mobil 1 can stretch that even further, but I still change each 50 hours. Mobil 1 has a better high temperature degradation, shear viscosity, optimal for both gear box and engine, and low-temp flow for cold starts. It's made for racing engines and costs about the same as the Aeroshell but is far better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Hereford Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Anticept,Not specifically related to this thread, but actually, MIL spec. (23699) turbine oils ARE compatible (non-compatible implies an unsafe condition if used). It is just that most MFGs (PW, Honeywell, GE etc) will recommend a drain and re-fill if next-gen oil is used in a certain amount in non-next gen engines for make-up. Not a big deal though if you don't (my opinion).Still, if you routinely work on several different types of turbine engines I would personally recommend having the specified type of oil on hand, and using it with prejudice. (2380 254 and Mobile Jet II should do it).It is actually not uncommon to find engines serviced with one type of oil, and the APU and or the ACM serviced with one or more different types. PITA.Who knows, if SLSA survives long enough, hopefully turbine engines will find their way onto them.Doug Hereford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Hi Doug! What I am referring to is Type 1 (Mil-L-7808) and Type 2 (Mil-L-23699) turbine oils. It is my understanding that they can be mixed for emergencies, but otherwise the various manufacturers strongly advise against it. I don't know the specifics. In addition, I understand Type 2 can be put in any engine, but Type 1 cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Hereford Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Anticept, As far as I know, these oils can absolutely be mixed. I mentioned it because it is the same rational as with piston oils. There are many who say that various oils cannot be mixed (are not compatible). As you stated, this is not true. Pick one and stick with it. If the MFG recommends a certain spec. follow that recommendation, but don't panic if another (broadly approved) oil is used in a pinch. Doug Hereford PS I am not aware of anybody (outside of the military), who routinely uses MIL-L-7807 oil in engines. Not even sure that the military still use it routinely in turbine engines. I use it a bunch in other areas of various airframes. Doug Hereford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 To me, I put it under the "do it if you have to, but only if you have to" categories. It's like the tempest vs rotax oil filter. You'll probably be fine with the tempest filter, but in the long run, the couple dollar difference seems inconsequential when considering that rotax can just say "There's a tempest filter on that engine? No warranty." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Hereford Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Exactly the point. Tempest and/or Rotax filters, either one is "compatible" with the engine. But preference should prevail. I would prefer Rotax filters (to Tempest). Same as my point on turbine oils. Rotax will NEVER say that their warranty is void with a Tempest filter. Please show me an example of when this is the case. If so, who would buy one of these ever so picky engines (Rotax engine). Doug Hereford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 It's the first question asked if you have a warranty claim. They also drill it into everyone's heads in the classes that rotax doesn't honor warranties if you don't use their filter, and the oil system is the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Hereford Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 As a follow on, If a customer came to me with a Tempest oil filter. And requested that I use it, I would do so without hesitation (so long as it was approved for the engine). Doug Hereford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Hereford Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 How many oil filter related warranty issues have there been due to uses of non- Rotax filters...................I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Would not Magnuson-Ross apply? "Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.[7] This is commonly referred to as the "tie-in sales" provisions,[8] and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives." http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act I think ROTAX would have to demonstrate that the Tempest filter had caused or played a role in a failure before they could deny coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Hereford Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Yep, Maybe some Rotax training (propaganda) valuable information. Doug Hereford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I've never heard of a tempest oil filter causing a failure. I just know what I've been told is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Hereford Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I never have either. What a shame for Tempest huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Which is why I said you will probably be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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