samifer Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Well I proved that all electronics run on smoke!!! Yesterday I atempted to start my plane while conected to a battery charger and I heard a sizzling sound from under the dash and a column of smoke rose from the fuel lever amd all was dead ...... I didnt even open anything up, just 2 depressing !!!!! Considering geting out of avation ...... whats next??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Whoa wait. Did you try to start with avionics on or off? If off, you don't have to worry. Can you call me perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Well I proved that all electronics run on smoke!!! Yesterday I atempted to start my plane while conected to a battery charger and I heard a sizzling sound from under the dash and a column of smoke rose from the fuel lever amd all was dead ...... I didnt even open anything up, just 2 depressing !!!!! Considering geting out of avation ...... whats next??!! Did you ground the battery charger first (three pronged plug)? Anyway, you may have a very costly problem there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 What do you think grounding the charger had to do with this? I'm thinking it may not be related to the charger at all. Strange place for smoke. Did any breakers pop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Don't despair. It may be a single capacitor or something giving up the ghost. Hopefully when you poke around near the source it will be obvious. Agree that it's doubtful the charger ground had anything to do with it. If misery loves company, my (self-inflicted) saga ended up not as horrible as I had imagined: http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/2598-momentary-lapses-gumption-traps-and-fast-eddie-long/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 What do you think grounding the charger had to do with this? I'm thinking it may not be related to the charger at all. Strange place for smoke. Did any breakers pop? Nothing,the grounding remark is just typical of the mechanical advise given on these aviation boards. The smoke likely came from him cooking his battery. At least he should hope that's all it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Nothing,the grounding remark is just typical of the mechanical advise given on these aviation boards. The smoke likely came from him cooking his battery. At least he should hope that's all it is... Lurk more, post less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Lurk more, post less. Ooh, I can use my meme again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Nothing,the grounding remark is just typical of the mechanical advise given on these aviation boards. The smoke likely came from him cooking his battery. At least he should hope that's all it is... Considering that the battery is on the engine side of the firewall and the smoke came from the lower center panel I doubt it is the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samifer Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Havent went to inspect the carnage yet but a few things I can say is the bat is on the eng side of the firewall so prob not that ..... the omly electronics that come on when I push in the batt breaker is my comstant speed prop controller .....and it will not boot up anymore and my eng will not turn over at all but both dynon screens still boot up ..... havent checked my 696 yet ...... not one single breaker poped in the incedent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Havent went to inspect the carnage yet but a few things I can say is the bat is on the eng side of the firewall so prob not that ..... the omly electronics that come on when I push in the batt breaker is my comstant speed prop controller .....and it will not boot up anymore and my eng will not turn over at all but both dynon screens still boot up ..... havent checked my 696 yet ...... not one single breaker poped in the incedent You should check the battery first, then the voltage regulator...since you saw smoke there likely was fire...so something will be blackened. Since your engine wont turnover and it happened with a battery charger the battery is the first suspect. Constant speed prop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Samflier, Burgers is not a mechanic or repairman, or engineer. We have those people on here who may have a much better idea if what is going on. I am a repairman, but far from the most experienced here. Sure, check the battery, and the regulator, but I am guessing you are going to find some fried wires in the panel. If the smoke actually originated near the throttle handle there are not many wires there. First guess is the prop control. Other wires (that I can think of off hand are for the ELT and the auto pilot. We in the US cannot use the flight adjustable prop, so you might have to track that info down elsewhere. I hope it is not as bad as it sounds. Look for melted wires our signs of heating behind the panel and in the tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 He said the smoke came from the fuel lever. Right around there you have the ignition switch that would have energized the wire to the starter solenoid. You also have the battery and alternator breaker switches there close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Could be, but normally smoke goes up. However, I suppose with the cooling fans it may have been forced down the tunnel. Unless the charger was over voltage, I doubt it was the cause. Seems likely it will be obvious with things opened up. I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Well, the ignition switch is right below the fuel lever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 OK, we are talking about the fuel shut off. I was thinking the throttle lever. That would change the likelihood, if that is the case, of the starter switch, or wires to it. Samflier, which was it? Shutoff, or throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samifer Posted May 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Fuel shutoff lever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 First place I would look is the fuel lever rod behind panel. This moves up and down and sometimes people have wires right alongside it. This can and does wear through the insulation and causes a direct short and arcing. It may be something else back there, but this is the first thing I would check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 We had a very similar experience 2 years ago - I wasn't flying the plane, but Les (my flying pal) ad his wife were - away from base they were about to return home when everything went dead! Being a resourceful chap, Les puzzled his way around the problem and got the thing started and flew home. Here is his write up of what happened: _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Initial 1 second turn of engine when trying to start then no further action, switch turned but no engine rotation (Diane detected a faint whiff of burning). I checked all the breakers and all connections (no response from key movement, lights and power were 100%, no starter action or click from solenoid) Borrowed silicone headphone wire (a broken MP3 type pair from another pilot) with the aim of directly activating the starter solenoid from the switch end – no success, I then tried to bridge at solenoid end – no success. Time was moving on so I then shorted battery +12v to starter lead at Solenoid to start engine (successful) and flew home. The day after, and with the benefit of some test gear looked at system again. There was no power to solenoid (starter switch activated). I checked the output from starter switch, dead no 12v+ on turning, with a proper piece of wire (not a very thin silicone based headphone wire) I bridged a 12v+ to the wire from the starter switch to the solenoid, the aircraft started straight away. Checked starter switch again, no feed to wire labelled ‘ignite’ from starter switch, open circuit (failed switch). Sourced used switch unit from Oliver and fitted, started first time, took the precaution of taxying aircraft up and down (grass strip) runway, stopped and started the engine twice, all ok. Stopped and tried to start again, no response, I checked output from starter switch, non-present, same fault as original. The next step was to check continuity of the wire from switch to solenoid, dead short on wire. We then checked the wiring from switch to solenoid for damage, fouling etc. When the wiring was moved near the bulkhead the dead short disappeared (this is specifically where the wiring travels through the bulkhead, the wire did not appear to be capable of fouling elsewhere, as soon as I touched the wiring where it comes through the bulkhead the short disappeared) Intermittent dead short on solenoid wire was cured by moving around the wires at the bulkhead. The starter switch failed as a result of the intermittent short. Fitted temporary secondary 3amp push button switch and 3amp line fuse. We have now fitted a new switch with the backup of a 3amp in line fuse on the ‘ignite’ or solenoid wire. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ The upshot was that the ignition key-switch unit was fried and needed replacement - the unit is made by Kraus & Naimer and the part number is CAD11 D-7V95*02FT1 (basic price in the UK in 2013 £56.64 which I suspect is a LOT less than Flight Design would charge!!). We fitted the new switch but kept the 3 amp in-line fuse in place for peace of mind. And before anyone asks - NO we never found where or what was actually shorting to cause the initial problem. I hope this might help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samifer Posted May 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Thank you Ian I will check all those thing when I get a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Didn't the guys flying in Alaska have a "no start" that was caused by the fuel shutoff rod that runs to the fuel valve rubbing on the ignition/start wires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Didn't the guys flying in Alaska have a "no start" that was caused by the fuel shutoff rod that runs to the fuel valve rubbing on the ignition/start wires? It's starting to sound like something we should all check periodically! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 They did, but they have a completely different wiring bundle than any of us do. Only the CTLSi setups are this way. I would start behind that panel to look for arcing wires regardless of cause. Could be up behind the circuit breaker panel too. No one will know for sure until it gets checked. Here's a good one for you. If your radio's volume went way down to a whisper and nothing would make it go louder and you could barely hear it. Where would you look. This one's a weird one and I know no one will guess. The problem was in the 37 pin connector on the back of the D120 Dynon. Inside that pin connector is a small button device for the alarm audio. A bared edge of a CHT wire was touching a bare connection on the audio alarm. This had it going to ground. How many would have sweared it had to be in the radio or intercom. I did at first. Who the heck would look on the inside of the 37 pin connector on the D120 instrument panel. This was one of those one in a million problems, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Hi Roger. OK about the different wires on the CTLSi. I recently had my panel off and found that there were wires running too close to the fuel cutoff components and, in my opinion, could be prone to rubbing when the shutoff was activated. I used a couple of nylon ties to keep them away. To hear there's smoke coming from the fuel cutoff area with a "no start" seems to point towards this being a possible cause for the problem. Seems like a lot of smoke would indicated a high current flow with breaker being popped. Don't know why the breaker pop did not occur unless the ground out occurred in the 12+ that runs from battery to the main breaker? Should be some telltale black wires showing when Samifer removes the panel and inspects things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Hi Dick, It's really anybody's guess until the panels come off to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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