stevez2436 Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I know some transponders (Garmin GTX 330) will automatically switch from standby to on once the plane is taking off. But, a recent FAA safety alert states that your transponder must be turned on and in altitude reporting mode whenever you are on any airport movement area. The FAA issued a Safety Alert for Operators (SAFO) that advises all pilots of the need to ensure that transponders are in the altitude reporting mode whenever their aircraft is on an airport movement area at all airports. Runway safety systems, such as Airport Surface Detection Equipment-Model X (ASDE-X), use data from surface movement radar and aircraft transponders to obtain accurate aircraft and vehicle locations, thereby increasing airport surface safety and efficiency. Pilots should ensure their checklists reference transponders in the appropriate places and consult their aircraft’s flight manual to determine the specific transponder position to enable altitude reporting. I assume this only applies to "controlled" airports (Class B, C, and D). http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/safo/all_safos/media/2015/SAFO15006.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 They really need to put this in the FARs if they want it to be taught as SOP for all pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 The reference in an AIM change, not a FAR change. Having the transponder on with altitude reporting while on the airport surface doesn't do much unless the field has something like ASDE-X which plots aircraft transponders on a screen in the tower. I have my Mode S xpndr set to auto...until a reg shows up saying that is no longer legal or ATC asks for the altitude reporting on the ground I see no reason to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I assume this only applies to "controlled" airports (Class B, C, and D). Well, the document clearly says: "This SAFO advises all operators and pilots of the need to ensure that transponders are in the altitude reporting mode whenever their aircraft is on an airport movement area at all airports." (bolded mine) Addressing someone else in this thread, Nike had a slogan "Just Do It!" Some people on this forum - and others - see an FAA recommendation in a training document, AIM, or whatever, and seek to make a point that "It's not regulatory!" Reminds me of a child shouting "You can't tell me what to do!" I never was in the habit of activating my Mode C transponder until airborne, either manually or, more recently, automatically. Now that I know what the FAA wants, I'll change my habits to fall into line with their request. Sometimes its just easier to go with the flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevez2436 Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Ed - Good point! The referenced web link states ... " ... aircraft operating on all airport movement areas at all airports, not just those that are ASDE-X equipped, must have their transponders on in the altitude reporting mode." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hey everyone! PSA: The GTX 327 and 330 can be wired to automatically power on and resume last mode by wiring pin 1 to the avionics bus. Please see the installation manual wiring diagrams (last few pages in the pdfs) for the notes. My CT always goes to alt right when you flip on the avionics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hey everyone! PSA: The GTX 327 and 330 can be wired to automatically power on and resume last mode by wiring pin 1 to the avionics bus. Please see the installation manual wiring diagrams (last few pages in the pdfs) for the notes. My CT always goes to alt right when you flip on the avionics Thanks for that. I cross-posted the PSA part to the Pilots of America site, assuming you would not mind. If that's an issue, let me know and I'll delete it. For me, it's good to know, but rather than futz with it I'll just change two checklist items on my Sky Arrow. For those who value such things, the AIM recommendations is in 4-1-20. In part: "3. Civil and military transponders should be turned to the “on” or normal altitude reporting position prior to moving on the airport surface to ensure the aircraft is visible to ATC surveillance systems." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 As long as it's copied in full. That "see install manual" is very important because I don't want to be blamed for anything! Also, you can just jumper the power pin to pin 1... you don't need to run a wire all the way to the bus if power is switched by the avionics switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 As long as it's copied in full. That "see install manual" is very important because I don't want to be blamed for anything! Done. Referenced post here: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1796196&postcount=35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Well, the document clearly says: "This SAFO advises all operators and pilots of the need to ensure that transponders are in the altitude reporting mode whenever their aircraft is on an airport movement area at all airports." (bolded mine) Addressing someone else in this thread, Nike had a slogan "Just Do It!" Some people on this forum - and others - see an FAA recommendation in a training document, AIM, or whatever, and seek to make a point that "It's not regulatory!" Reminds me of a child shouting "You can't tell me what to do!" I never was in the habit of activating my Mode C transponder until airborne, either manually or, more recently, automatically. Now that I know what the FAA wants, I'll change my habits to fall into line with their request. Sometimes its just easier to go with the flow. Agreed. I'm not going to do something just because it's suggested by the FAA if it serves no purpose, but I will absolutely do something that is suggested and not "regulatory" if it serves a reasonable safety objective. In this case, the FAA seems strongly convinced this provides a safety benefit, and it's really simple to do, so I will do it. My transponder is, for whatever reason, the only piece of avionics that does not come on with the avionics master. So instead of hitting "STBY" to turn it on, I have been pushing "ALT" for the last month or so. No additional effort. I'm guessing that as ADS-B becomes more prevalent, this might start to make a difference in allowing aircraft to differentiate ground traffic from air traffic, and paired with ADS-B out it might allow everybody to see exactly where all the moving pieces are on the airport property. The reason I said it should be in the FARs is that there are going to be people that don't do it *because* it's not regulatory. Putting it in the FARs puts everybody on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Done. Referenced post here: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1796196&postcount=35 What, you aren't going to point them back here? Also, as for the guy saying that his transponder switches to ALT at 30 knots: that's not his transponder doing that. Transponders have no capability to determine speed. That's likely something like the GPS or glass cockpit activating that capability. The 327 can automatically switch when it detects a climb though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 What, you aren't going to point them back here? Also, as for the guy saying that his transponder switches to ALT at 30 knots: that's not his transponder doing that. Transponders have no capability to determine speed. That's likely something like the GPS or glass cockpit activating that capability. Good point! Link added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 This recommendation came out about a year ago, at least in the AIM. Since than I have been teaching my students to do this, along with other operational changes for our airport. I think they realized that having the transponder on during ground operations was less of a problem than having pilots forget to switch after airborne in busy airspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Agreed. I'm not going to do something just because it's suggested by the FAA if it serves no purpose, but I will absolutely do something that is suggested and not "regulatory" if it serves a reasonable safety objective. In this case, the FAA seems strongly convinced this provides a safety benefit, and it's really simple to do, so I will do it. My transponder is, for whatever reason, the only piece of avionics that does not come on with the avionics master. So instead of hitting "STBY" to turn it on, I have been pushing "ALT" for the last month or so. No additional effort. I'm guessing that as ADS-B becomes more prevalent, this might start to make a difference in allowing aircraft to differentiate ground traffic from air traffic, and paired with ADS-B out it might allow everybody to see exactly where all the moving pieces are on the airport property. The reason I said it should be in the FARs is that there are going to be people that don't do it *because* it's not regulatory. Putting it in the FARs puts everybody on the same page. How often are you taxiing in Class C or B airfields? The 2020 ADS-B mandate is an actual reg. Not diddling the xpndr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 FYI. The below 35 major airports have received ASDE-X: Baltimore Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport (BWI) Boston Logan International Airport (BOS) Bradley International Airport (BDL) Chicago Midway Airport (MDW) Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD) Charlotte Douglas International Airport (CLT) Dallas Fort Worth International Airport (DFW) Denver International Airport (DEN) Detroit Metro Wayne County Airport (DTW) Fort Lauderdale / Hollywood Airport (FLL) General Mitchell International Airport (MKE) George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH) Hartsfield Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL) Honolulu International Airport (HNL) John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK) John Wayne — Orange County Airport (SNA) LaGuardia Airport (LGA) Lambert St. Louis International Airport (STL) Las Vegas McCarran International Airport (LAS) Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) Louisville International Airport-Standiford Field (SDF) Memphis International Airport (MEM) Miami International Airport (MIA) Minneapolis St. Paul International Airport (MSP) Newark International Airport (EWK) Orlando International Airport (MCO) Philadelphia International Airport (PHL) Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport (PHX) Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport (DCA) San Diego International Airport (SAN) Salt Lake City International Airport (SLC) Seattle Tacoma International Airport (SEA)v Theodore Francis Green State Airport (PVD) Washington Dulles International Airport (IAD) William P. Hobby Airport (HOU) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yes. But the FAA would like everyone to squawk ALT for all ground operations at all airports. It really seems so simple to just comply. When someone (not you, Dave) resists such a clear and simple request, it does make me wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I know some transponders (Garmin GTX 330) will automatically switch from standby to on once the plane is taking off. But, a recent FAA safety alert states that your transponder must be turned on and in altitude reporting mode whenever you are on any airport movement area. The FAA issued a Safety Alert for Operators (SAFO) that advises all pilots of the need to ensure that transponders are in the altitude reporting mode whenever their aircraft is on an airport movement area at all airports. Runway safety systems, such as Airport Surface Detection Equipment-Model X (ASDE-X), use data from surface movement radar and aircraft transponders to obtain accurate aircraft and vehicle locations, thereby increasing airport surface safety and efficiency. Pilots should ensure their checklists reference transponders in the appropriate places and consult their aircraft’s flight manual to determine the specific transponder position to enable altitude reporting. I assume this only applies to "controlled" airports (Class B, C, and D). http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/safo/all_safos/media/2015/SAFO15006.pdf I just keep it on all the time the engine is on, set and forget. Seems easier to me. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Eddie but it's so much harder to press the 'Alt' button vs the 'Stby' button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 How often are you taxiing in Class C or B airfields? This won't affect you at all... You should be focused on getting ADS-B than diddling xpndr changes as an added pilot load. Pilot load? Hitting ALT after I start the engine and then not touching it again? If this is what counts as "pilot load" I want to see cockpit video of you flying your pressurized Lancair in Class A airspace...it will be hilarious. You do realize that regardless of what ADS-B equipment you have installed, you are still required to "diddle" your transponder, right? Nothing is changing in that requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Pilot load? Hitting ALT after I start the engine and then not touching it again? If this is what counts as "pilot load" I want to see cockpit video of you flying your pressurized Lancair in Class A airspace...it will be hilarious. You do realize that regardless of what ADS-B equipment you have installed, you are still required to "diddle" your transponder, right? Nothing is changing in that requirement. Setting the xpndr to auto and NEVER touching it again is reducing load. Diddling the xpndr manually is added pilot load...if you forget to set ALT on takeoff in a Class C or B you will find out quickly what a real spanking in the air feels like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hazardous Attitude #2: Anti-Authority 'Why should I listen to you?' This attitude usually surfaces upon people who have non conformist tendencies. Pilot that express such an attitude are usually resentful towards comments and/or advice from others, be it superiors or subordinates. The also tend to disregard operating procedures, rules and regulations. However, there is a fine line that lies between 'anti-authority' and the natural prerogative to question to authority especially when there is an error suspected. Many mistake anti-authority as a solution to balance out the 'power gradient' in the cockpit. Hence it is only wise for pilots to bring up issues that they feel go against protocol after checking and rechecking. "Antidote? Follow the rules. They are usually right." Four more that instructors - and pilots - should be alert for here: http://aviationknowledge.wikidot.com/sop:hazardous-attitudes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Setting the xpndr to auto and NEVER touching it again is called reducing load. Diddling the xpndr manually is added pilot load...if you forget to set ALT on takeoff in a Class C or B you will find out quickly what a real spanking in the air feels like when tower and/or departure control reminds you to turn it on before they will make radar contract while others on frequency laugh at you... Wow! Are you really that insecure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hazardous Attitude #2: Anti-Authority 'Why should I listen to you?' This attitude usually surfaces upon people who have non conformist tendencies. Pilot that express such an attitude are usually resentful towards comments and/or advice from others, be it superiors or subordinates. The also tend to disregard operating procedures, rules and regulations. However, there is a fine line that lies between 'anti-authority' and the natural prerogative to question to authority especially when there is an error suspected. Many mistake anti-authority as a solution to balance out the 'power gradient' in the cockpit. Hence it is only wise for pilots to bring up issues that they feel go against protocol after checking and rechecking. "Antidote? Follow the rules. They are usually right." Four more that instructors - and pilots - should be alert for here: http://aviationknowledge.wikidot.com/sop:hazardous-attitudes It is NOT an FAA reg. And as someone who flys into Class B, C and D routinely I appreciate the AUTO setting on the xpndr. There is already plenty to deal with regarding departure clearances and ATC communication at these airports. And little is more critical on takeoff than having your squawk code set correctly, flying the route/altitude instructed and not worry that your ALT mode is on...especially if departure control is busy... And that's VFR, the instrument departure procedures are even more complex This so-called safety directive is largely nonsense except for the big Bravos, and even then, those guys are watching you like a hawk anyway, especially if you request progressive taxi help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Seems to me there are people on this forum who could cause an argument in an empty room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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