gbigs Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/User-Fee-Funded-ATC-Proposed-224281-1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 User Fee-Funded ATC Proposed More than 10 years ago I gave up flight following. The idea was to minimize the quantity of ATC services being used and help fight the implementation of user fees. I find I can get buy just talking to the occasional tower. Reno is my exception, gotta talk to approach and departure there. User fees could make light sport expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I like the concept of user fees for aviation, IF they fund everything that way and do away with the aviation tax structure...which won't happen. Taxes *plus* user fees will destroy general aviation in the US as it has been destroyed in most other nations. Not to mention, if pilots have to pay per-use fees for ATC, many will likely just skip using those services, leading to decreased safety. The only way around that is to make ATC services mandatory, driving all but the wealthiest out of aviation. Which might in fact be the goal. I like Flight Following, but I only use it on long trips. I don't see the point of using it when I'm just buzzing around at 2500ft in an area I know like the back of my hand. Radar coverage is spotty anyway at those altitudes, so I'm not buying much by using ATC. Some people won't leave the pattern without FF -- that seems a little paranoid (and sad) to me. It takes away some of the independent feeling of just roaming around locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwmoore Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Congress is likely exasperated with FAA and this is one way to cut into the agency's power-and-control, a bureaucrat's greatest fear. My guess is that ATC will indeed be removed from FAA's jurisdiction but will still be funded--at least GA's contribution--by fuel taxes instead of per-flight user fees. It wouldn't surprise me if fuel taxes increase though. All the more reason to use autogas in your LSA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Congress is likely exasperated with FAA and this is one way to cut into the agency's power-and-control, a bureaucrat's greatest fear. My guess is that ATC will indeed be removed from FAA's jurisdiction but will still be funded--at least GA's contribution--by fuel taxes instead of per-flight user fees. It wouldn't surprise me if fuel taxes increase though. All the more reason to use autogas in your LSA! Not that anyone pays it, if you check the law I think you are supposed to pay the aviation tax on autofuel used in a aircraft. You can also file for a refund of road taxes paid on the same fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwmoore Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Not that anyone pays it, if you check the law I think you are supposed to pay the aviation tax on autofuel used in a aircraft. You can also file for a refund of road taxes paid on the same fuel. Thanks, didn't know that. I'd guess most pilots that use mogas don't bother with the hassle of paying the aviation tax AND filing for a refund of the road taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I use mogas, i bring it to the airfield in my gas trailer. I pay no aviation fuel tax. I don't use aviation fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I use mogas, i bring it to the airfield in my gas trailer. I pay no aviation fuel tax. I don't use aviation fuel. I wish I could do the same. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I wish I could do the same. Cheers Downside is, of course, that he can't really go anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I use mogas, i bring it to the airfield in my gas trailer. I pay no aviation fuel tax. I don't use aviation fuel. To Tom's point, as soon as you put it in an airplane, it *becomes* aviation fuel you are supposed to pay aviation fuel tax on. But it's also no longer an automotive fuel, and thus you can get a rebate on those taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Downside is, of course, that he can't really go anywhere. It's temporary anyway...once that Lancair is flying, he'll be out of the mogas biz with a vengeance. Though to be fair, since I have owned my airplane I have *never* put 100LL in it, even on long cross country flights. I was lucky in that the longest flight I made had mogas on the destination field, and all my other trips were within the round-trip radius of the CT's tanks. That will all change this year when I fly to Oshkosh and Page though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I use mogas, i bring it to the airfield in my gas trailer. I pay no aviation fuel tax. I don't use aviation fuel.Does the law say "aviation fuel," or fuel "used for aviation"? Farmers don't pay tax on gasoline and diesel used on the farm. Even when they use a trailer to transport it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 To Tom's point, as soon as you put it in an airplane, it *becomes* aviation fuel you are supposed to pay aviation fuel tax on. But it's also no longer an automotive fuel, and thus you can get a rebate on those taxes. Tell you what, you run $5.50 lead-clogging 100LL and pay the aviation tax. I'll keep running $2.70 lead free mogas and not pay it. We can compare fuel bills and engine clogging at the end of the year. And to repeat, I carry Decalin in a glass baby bottle on long trips just in case. So far I have not had to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Tell you what, you run $5.50 lead-clogging 100LL and pay the aviation tax. I will run $2.70 lead free mogas and not pay it. We can compare fuel bills and engine clogging at the end of the year. And to repeat, I carry Decalin in a glass baby bottle on long trips just in case. So far I have not had to use it. Tell you what, stop responding to points I never made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 It's temporary anyway...once that Lancair is flying, he'll be out of the mogas biz with a vengeance. When I owned my Cirrus, I had the pleasure of fillups that routinely ran over $300 - sometimes over $400. I had a friend willing to loan me his Cirrus for trip to FL. But when I figured roughly 4 hours each way at around 15 gph and maybe $7/gal, that trip was nearly $1,000 in fuel alone! The little Element made a lot more sense, and Karen and I road trip well together regardless. Don't sweat the Avgas. North Little Rock had Mogas at a Light Sport dealer when I passed through - you might want to plan that as a stop. And check with Airnav - I would go a little out of the way for mogas - on general principal. God forbid I might "clog up" my engine! In any case, some nice day when you have time we can discuss routing and logistics and I can take a look at those wheels and brakes. I'll buy lunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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