Wing Inspections

[Roger Lee]

When you have the wings off drill a 3/4" hole right where the clamp is on the fuselage between the wing and fuselage. If it is an Oetiker clamp put a screwdriver in there and force the hose off. When you replace the hose use a fuel injection clamp where the Oetiker clamp was. I remove the straight slot screwdriver screw and replace it with an allen head. Now it will always be easy to access and with an allen head screw simple to get to the clamp for any further maint. Don't be afraid to drill a hole in the fuselage. If you want you can cover the hole with the same Bolix maxi tape used on the wing root gaps. The hole is sanctioned by FD.

[cdarza]

Awesome -

thank you !

[Doug G.]

One thing I didn't understand when I was planning to pull the wings the first time is that they don't have to be removed from the plane, just pulled out far enough to do the inspection and change the sight tubes. Someone here, probably Roger, told me before I actually did it.

Also, and this may not matter to some, but I have done a lot of electronics, worked on engines of different sorts, and taken Rotax classes, but I had never done anything comparable to pulling wings. I was told the rule is, "You can't do it unless you've done it." So I paid an A & P to supervise me the first time an I have his signature on a piece of paper that says I did it in accordance with FDs instructions. After that I had done it so now I can do it.

[Roger Lee]

Pulling the wings for the inspection is quite easy and takes about 1.5 hrs. Always change out the fuel sight tubes during the inspection.

[Tom Baker]

For the record you don't have to drill a hole. I can just about have it changed in the time it takes to have the tools out to make the hole. However I do have a special tool for tightening the clamp on re-installation.

[WmInce]

Great, accurate, information here. Threads like this make the CT Flier Forum invaluable.

[Roger Lee]

Hi Tom,

 

I tried it without a hole a few times. It was a pain trying to get back in there to remove and then apply another clamp. It takes me 1 minute to drill a hole then it is forever easy. I takes me less time to just drill the hole than to always fight that small space. Here is the FD approval and picture of the hole.

 

p.s.

When you drill the hole on the right side I place a flat metal putty blade in between the pitot tube hoses and the skin I'm drilling to protect those hoses. You don't want to drill into those plastic tubes. This is easy to do and you can see what your doing.

09 02 10 FD Manufacturer Approval CT2kCTSW hole in root rib.pdf

[Tom Baker]

Roger, I know it doesn't take long to actually drill the hole, what I was referring to is getting ready to drill the hole. Getting the drill out, finding the bit, dragging out an extension cord, finding a ruler, marking the hole location, all before you drill the hole.

 

 I just did one that had the original Oetikers this past summer. It took about 15 minutes total to replace both hoses. I use a pick and small screwdriver with a little twist to open the Oetiker, and the hose and clamp will slide right off. Cut a new length of hose and install a fuel injection clamp that has had the slot screw replaced with a hex head. Slide it back on the fitting, take a peak with a mirror to make sure the hose is seated, and tighten the clamp. Bingo, bango, done.

[Roger Lee]

A corded drill and measuring??? Isn't that old school.   I just grab my cordless drill toss the bit in I have for that in the second drawer, put my finger on the other side of the fuselage next to the clamp and drill pretending I want to drill the hole in my finger. I do eventually remove my finger. 

 

I'm going to have to get you a cordless drill and Dremel for Christmas. 

[FlyingMonkey]

What's the best clamp type to use for this, Oetiker?  Zebra/Wurth?  Does anybody have a link to the correct/best clamp to use?

[Roger Lee]

I use a fuel injection screw clamp. I remove the straight tip screwdriver screw and put in a allen head screw. This makes it really easy to access and the allen head makes it a non slip project and it helps keep the screw straight. You can get this standard FI clamp at any automotive store. They are the most common.

[Tom Baker]

One thing I didn't understand when I was planning to pull the wings the first time is that they don't have to be removed from the plane, just pulled out far enough to do the inspection and change the sight tubes. Someone here, probably Roger, told me before I actually did it.

Also, and this may not matter to some, but I have done a lot of electronics, worked on engines of different sorts, and taken Rotax classes, but I had never done anything comparable to pulling wings. I was told the rule is, "You can't do it unless you've done it." So I paid an A & P to supervise me the first time an I have his signature on a piece of paper that says I did it in accordance with FDs instructions. After that I had done it so now I can do it.

I thought it worth mentioning, unless an A&P has removed and installed wings on a airplane before the FAA says they can't supervise you doing it.

[Roger Lee]

Hi Tom,

 

Just teasing you. If it works for whomever all is good.   

[Doug G.]

I thought it worth mentioning, unless an A&P has removed and installed wings on a airplane before the FAA says they can't supervise you doing it.

Have you got a reg for this? What I recall from Rainbow was that an A & P could supervise. (This guy had recently helped pull and reworked wings on an Edge. And I know he has done Cubs before.)

[Roger Lee]

An A&P can supervise, but then the training or experience requirement falls to the person doing the task. You can't have dumb and dumber working on the same task. Then you have to remember that if anything goes wrong the A&P ultimately legally held responsible for damages and possibly set himself up for a legal lawsuit.

 

The FAA has a publication that states (not word for word here) that any mechanic must have had specific training or similar experience to perform any task. The FAA also had this published when they gave their ruling on how an A&P fits into the LSA scene. This was when Rotax said anyone working on their engine had to have Rotax training. Which we know isn't true, but smart to do. During that legal publication that they rendered at the end of all that this was also the case for an A&P working on an LSA. It's a very loose interpretation when I called the FAA and ask for more specifics. The experience only had to be similar, but not exact. The other thing that came out in that legal rendering was that ANY mechanic that worked on an aircraft (targeted at LSA at the time) must have these three things. The correct tools for that engine/aircraft, any manuals that pertain to that job or aircraft/engine, have been trained in that procedure or had similar experience and have access to any bulletins or the such.

 

Here is what I see in the field. Too many (unfortunate) A&P's do not have Rotax manuals or the specific airframe manuals from an MFG. (They're all on line.)  Few know where to find bulletins and few ever looked them up. Few have a full complement of tools i.e. metric and Rotax engine specific tools.

 

I know this to be fairly true when I see some work come to the shop and it isn't done correctly according to Rotax and or puts the aircraft out out airworthy standards. I have called several and they admit they don't have manuals, don't know where to get them, don't know where to look for bulletins and didn't have that tool.

 

How can any mechanic do an annual or 100 hr. inspection without the Rotax Line maint. manual and checklist in front of them in some form. Then because of this their logbook entries suck. The catch all IAW which would sign their death warrant in court because that means they followed all the maintenance checks listed for that inspection and if questioned they wouldn't have a clue because the next well trained mechanic finds all the wrong things that were done.

 

A couple of old timers say they have forgot more than the owner knows. In lies the problem. THEY FORGOT.

 

The FAA does consider work on a Cont. or Lycoming and other air frame work to be similar enough for LSA work. They did go on to say in phone calls that even though the legal ruling covered an A&P it is indeed foolish to perform certain task without specific knowledge and training.

 

As an example draining too much oil out of the system and not knowing when an oil purge is dictated, knowing little to nothing about a Rotax dry sump system, how to set prop pitch which few A&P have done. Putting anti-sieze on plug threads instead of the thermal silicone based paste. How and or what is needed to realign cylinders once they were loosened. How to check for gearbox friction torque, wrong hose and or clamp procedures and the list goes on. These are not isolated incidents. It happens everyday.

 

 

I probably have that publication and I'll try and find it. 

[Tom Baker]

Have you got a reg for this? What I recall from Rainbow was that an A & P could supervise. (This guy had recently helped pull and reworked wings on an Edge. And I know he has done Cubs before.)

 

65.81 "However, he may not supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance, or alteration of, or approve and return to service, any aircraft or appliance, or part thereof, for which he is rated unless he has satisfactorily performed the work concerned at an earlier date."

[Doug G.]

65.81 "However, he may not supervise the maintenance, preventive maintenance, or alteration of, or approve and return to service, any aircraft or appliance, or part thereof, for which he is rated unless he has satisfactorily performed the work concerned at an earlier date."

So what does this mean? Is it make and model specific? FD says you have to have their training. The last that was offered was two years before I bought my plane (2010).

Would an A & P be able to change or supervise the change of a Rotax specific hose on a Rotax engine if he had not worked on one before.

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to figure this out. With Rotax it took a response from FAA legal to say they couldn't require Rotax provided training. (Although I agree that it is an excellent and nearly necessary thing to do.)

[Tom Baker]

So what does this mean? Is it make and model specific? FD says you have to have their training. The last that was offered was two years before I bought my plane (2010).

Would an A & P be able to change or supervise the change of a Rotax specific hose on a Rotax engine if he had not worked on one before.

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to figure this out. With Rotax it took a response from FAA legal to say they couldn't require Rotax provided training. (Although I agree that it is an excellent and nearly necessary thing to do.)

 

If a A&P has changed hoses on any aircraft engine they can change hoses on a Rotax, As far as the FAA is concerned all airplanes and engines are the same as far as task performed. Flight Design can't require more training than is required by the FAA.

[Doug G.]

So, a wing removal is a wing removal? The A&P, since he had performed this on an Edge and a Cub (maybe others, I don't know) was ok to supervise on an FD?

[Roger Lee]

"The A&P, since he had performed this on an Edge and a Cub (maybe others, I don't know) was ok to supervise on an FD? "

 

You are correct. The FAA says this is actually a very loose interpretation. Similar experience is pretty wide ranging according to the FAA.

Also remember Fd or Rotax can not make rules above what is already in writing with the FAA.

 

Tom's example is a good one.They can do it legally, but that doesn't stop them from messing it up and doing it wrong.

​Better to just get some experienced help and not cause issues and or damage. That said I might be shooting myself in the foot. Fixing what untrained A&P's do makes good business for me.   

[Tom Baker]

I am one of those dreaded A&P mechanics that Roger talks about. My first CT wing removal went something like this.

 When I was ready to do my first wing pull on a CT I was good from a legal standpoint, though at the time the FAA thought differently. I had not yet had factory training, but I had removed and installed wings on other airplanes before. I read the manual closely, and then called the Toms at Airtime to get detailed specifics on removal, and what to watch out for. When all was said and done things went smoothly.

[Doug G.]

Yes, I had also talked to Roger and Kent Johnson in Stanton, MN. (I hear he has retired.) It always helps to get input from others.

[Buckaroo]

I have A&P's around here that want to do my Annual! No way! Not sure how I'll get it done here in Montana!

 

Rotax maintenance in Montana is a factor I didn't consider well when buying my CT. I can fly out for work but if flying is non advised due to the problem I'm in trouble!

[Doug G.]

Either get your RMLS-A repairman certificate, or, pay for your A&P to take Rotax classes (and go with them).

The other option would be to plan to fly to somewhere that can do your annual.

[Duane Jefts]

Someone from Calif does annuals in Hawaii. Jerome sp is his name. perhaps someone has a phone number for him.

 

Also a little winter trip to Tucson and Roger can do one for you.

 

There is always Lone Mountain Aviation in North Las Vegas airport but he may be a little pricey.

 

There are options.