Cluemeister Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hello all, I am starting to go through the process of getting my private pilot's license. I anticipate I will be buying a light sport aircraft. This brings me to my question. I went to the Flight Design website, and most of the training facilities near me in the southeast don't appear to be in business, or don't appear to train in the CTLS anymore. Is there a reason for this? And is there a flight school anyone knows of in the southeast that trains on the CTLS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Can you provide more information on "southeast"? For example, what would be your preferred service area (states, cities, etc)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Flight training in any LSA, much less the model of your choice, is tough in a lot of areas. The Sport Pilot rating never really took off the way we hoped, and there are just not that many to train in. If you are going for your Private anyway, you can just train in something LSA-like, like a 152 or DA-20, and then transition when you are ready to buy something. If you want to ride in a CT, I have a 2007 CTSW and I'm not that far from you...I'm sure we could arrange something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hello all, I am starting to go through the process of getting my private pilot's license. I anticipate I will be buying a light sport aircraft. This brings me to my question. I went to the Flight Design website, and most of the training facilities near me in the southeast don't appear to be in business, or don't appear to train in the CTLS anymore. Is there a reason for this? And is there a flight school anyone knows of in the southeast that trains on the CTLS? I bought a new CTLSi and trained to get a PPL in it. It's now for sale if you want to do the same. It's still under warranty and just had a fresh annual. I'd be happy to ferry it out to you if you are interested... http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/FLIGHT-DESIGN-CTLSi/2013-FLIGHT-DESIGN-CTLSi/1401589.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 If you're anywhere near Copperhill, TN in SE TN, I have a Light Sport Sky Arrow and would not mind talking planes, Light Sport, training or whatever. Never mind an excuse to fly (show off) either! I have about 4,500 hours of instruction given, but am not current as a CFI. Let me know. We could even arrange a 3-way with Andy! FastEddieB@mac.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 We could even arrange a 3-way with Andy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Not that there's anything wrong with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluemeister Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 First of all, thanks for the speedy replies! This all started when I saw an article about the Icon about 4 months ago. So I started looking at the Sport Pilot license. Of course the Icon's delay, rising price tag, and amphibian type don't really fit what I'm looking for. So I moved onto "regular" planes. I showed my wife several 1970's Cessnas, and those didn't go over too well. I understand they are time tested, but she would be hesitant to get in something that was about 50 years old. Then when she heard about parachutes for planes, that became another important item. So as I look at a plane to fit what we need, 2 seats is plenty. I want something that cruises around 120 knots so we can get to places faster than a Cessna 150. And a little luggage space would be good. As I narrowed my search, I found the CT series, and then came to this forum. I must say as I lurk around the forum, you guys like your planes a lot. That's a good sign! Now to answer your questions: Anticept, I'm in Tennessee, so as I look at the Flight Design web page that shows flight centers, I see four flight centers, in Florida, Alabama, Illinois and Maryland. Two of those companies' web pages are inoperable, and the other two locations don't have CTLS planes on their inventory list. Made me question why flight centers are dropping CT's, if that impression is accurate. Andy - I will happily take you up on your very generous offer. I'm about 3 hours from Atlanta by car. I will send you a private message. Hamburger - It looks like you're moving up to a bigger plane. But I see you like your CT as well. I'll check out your listing. Fast Eddie - I'm in East Tennessee, so I'm pretty far from you. But I will keep the offer in mind. When I say the offer, I mean the offer to fly, not the offer of a three way. Unless you and Andy are actually 20 something co-eds, I'm going to pass. Not that there's anything wrong with that. EDIT - I just noticed you said southEAST Tennessee. For some reason I thought southwest. Sorry about that. I will send you and Andy a pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Did you miss ours in ohio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 If you're looking for a light sport school closer to you, it might be difficult. I was getting checked out in a FD CTLS at Mint Air in Greenville SC when they suddenly went out of business. They had 3 or 4 CTLS aircraft but no other school in the region offered the CTLS so I moved on to other types of LSA. The Chesapeake Light Sport school at Bay Bridge airport in MD is all about light sport flying and you might consider spending a couple of days getting a demo ride in one of their types. They have a Tecnam eaglet, Sky Arrow and 2 brand new RV-12 SLSAs. I thought they had a CTLS but I guess they sold it. You might also consider spending a week or two there and get your PPL in a shorter time. Then you could decide which model of LSA you like or even choose another. The Light Sport Expo in Sebring FL is coming up in january and they're usually well represented in the various manufacturer's of light sport aircraft as well as various vendors with numerous associated products. If you like the FD types it would be beneficial to connect with an owner such as the guys who've responded here as they'll have a wealth of info on their model (CTSW/CTLS etc) and the pros and cons. Good luck in your search! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluemeister Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Did you miss ours in ohio? I didn't go up that far in north my search, sorry about that! What a great flying club and training facility! 3 CTLS aircraft. I read the history section of your website. What a story. As a business owner, I know how hard it is to turn an operation in a new direction and still keep it viable. Congratulations. We have 5 flying clubs in my area, and not a single LSA. That was the other main issue in getting a sport pilot, even as a starter certificate to build hours and experience, there would be nothing to fly unless I purchased a plane. So I may train locally in a school with a 152 and 172. Currently studying ground school with ASA Prepware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 FYI, I'm based out of Copperhill, TN, marked as "CAMPBELL - 1A3" on this chart: Pretty much right where GA, TN, and NC meet. The little plane symbol is my home in GA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 One thing that might leave you disappointed, Cluemeister: you mentioned that you'd like to cruise at 120 knots. It's important to know there are several measures involved here: Indicated Airspeed (IAS): the speed that shows on your instruments. This is an uncorrected number that varies with altitude and other factors. True Airspeed (TAS): The speed of the airplane through the air mass, corrected for altitude and other conditions. Ground Speed (GS): The speed of the airplane across the ground -- basically the speed you are traveling. In my CT it's relatively easy to get better than 120kt TAS, and not too hard to break 120kt IAS at lower altitudes. But the number that really matters is GS, since that is how fast you are "getting somewhere". That's the number you have to flight plan, since it will determine your hours in air to the destination and thus how much fuel is used. I flight plan for 110kt. If things go well I will see 115kt, if they go really well I get 120kt GS. But 110 is a conservative number that I can consistently hit unless I'm in a strong headwind. The good news is those numbers are still faster than a Cessna 172, a Piper Cherokee, or many other common airplanes. And we burn a lot less fuel than those planes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 As a general observation... Many of us fly because flying is, for lack of a better word, FUN! As such, it seems contradictory that so many are in such a rush to make flights as short as possible! Certainly, a plane becomes more capable as a cross country machine if it's faster. And faster planes are less affected by headwinds, all things being equal. Run the numbers, and you'll find that a 5 or 10 kts difference in GS makes very little difference in leg times. Even at 95 kts, my slug of a Sky Arrow has gotten us to FL a few times, Indiana twice and even Page, AZ and back. Increased speed is undeniably a plus, just don't get too hung up on it! And this from someone who's last plane routinely cruised at 170+ kts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I didn't go up that far in north my search, sorry about that! What a great flying club and training facility! 3 CTLS aircraft. I read the history section of your website. What a story. As a business owner, I know how hard it is to turn an operation in a new direction and still keep it viable. Congratulations. We have 5 flying clubs in my area, and not a single LSA. That was the other main issue in getting a sport pilot, even as a starter certificate to build hours and experience, there would be nothing to fly unless I purchased a plane. So I may train locally in a school with a 152 and 172. Currently studying ground school with ASA Prepware. Feel free to ask about any questions that you may have regarding that ground schooling. You will definitely run into a few questions that are confusing. Also, be aware that the ONLY thing that defines light sport, is 14 CFR 1.1: Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following: (1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than— (i) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for operation on water; or (ii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for operation on water. (2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea level. (3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots CAS for a glider. (4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity. (5) A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons, including the pilot. (6) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered. (7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft other than a powered glider. (8) A fixed or feathering propeller system if a powered glider. (9) A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane. (10) A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin. (11) Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for operation on water or a glider. (12) Fixed or retractable landing gear, or a hull, for an aircraft intended for operation on water. (13) Fixed or retractable landing gear for a glider. Now, if we look at that... notice how that first line is written? It's because light sport was written to include standard airplanes too that meet this definition. Those flying clubs around you, do they have champs, cubs, ercoupes, taylorcrafts, etc? Those might qualify! Basically, many vintage airplanes that originally had very low horsepower engines (<80hp) had to be constructed extremely lightweight, and usually fit the bill for LSA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Anticept, I'm in Tennessee, so as I look at the Flight Design web page that shows flight centers, I see four flight centers, in Florida, Alabama, Illinois and Maryland. Two of those companies' web pages are inoperable, and the other two locations don't have CTLS planes on their inventory list. Made me question why flight centers are dropping CT's, if that impression is accurate. Just because the website isn't there doesn't mean the airplane is not, though I would like to sell it. You can check out www.olneynobleairport.com It is up and running, but not completely up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Cluemeister, I did my training in a Skycatcher. I know our local Cessna dealer still trains with one (although I also know they are trying to sell it) you might be able to go that route and then do transition training once you get your own. Assuming there are any Cessna schools in your area that still have Skycatchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 If you are going for a PPL you are not restricted to learning in an LSA. You can learn in a Cessna 172 for example. If your wife wants a BRS, as mine does, then you will be restricted to Flight Design, Pipistrel, Remos, ICON in SLSA. All of which are great products and will fit your stated mission and speeds. And if you end up getting a PPL you can also buy a used Cirrus SR22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluemeister Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 One thing that might leave you disappointed, Cluemeister: you mentioned that you'd like to cruise at 120 knots. It's important to know there are several measures involved here: Indicated Airspeed (IAS): the speed that shows on your instruments. This is an uncorrected number that varies with altitude and other factors. True Airspeed (TAS): The speed of the airplane through the air mass, corrected for altitude and other conditions. Ground Speed (GS): The speed of the airplane across the ground -- basically the speed you are traveling. In my CT it's relatively easy to get better than 120kt TAS, and not too hard to break 120kt IAS at lower altitudes. But the number that really matters is GS, since that is how fast you are "getting somewhere". That's the number you have to flight plan, since it will determine your hours in air to the destination and thus how much fuel is used. I flight plan for 110kt. If things go well I will see 115kt, if they go really well I get 120kt GS. But 110 is a conservative number that I can consistently hit unless I'm in a strong headwind. The good news is those numbers are still faster than a Cessna 172, a Piper Cherokee, or many other common airplanes. And we burn a lot less fuel than those planes too. Hi Andy, I didn't mean to make too much of the cruising speed. I am aware that light sport is restricted on speed, but I wanted something close to the top end. I've looked at a few light sport that seem to cruise at 95 knots, and I believe that will be a little slow. Plus I only plan to fly with tailwinds. Your point about the Cessna 172 is well taken. The gph I see on those plans is double from what I can tell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluemeister Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 If you are going for a PPL you are not restricted to learning in an LSA. You can learn in a Cessna 172 for example. If your wife wants a BRS, as mine does, then you will be restricted to Flight Design, Pipistrel, Remos, ICON in SLSA. All of which are great products and will fit your stated mission and speeds. And if you end up getting a PPL you can also buy a used Cirrus SR22. I've seen some Cirrus SR22's in the 150-175k range recently. Those are beautiful aircraft. I'm thinking baby steps first. But I would be lying if I said the SR22 wasn't on my longer term wishlist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluemeister Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Cluemeister, I did my training in a Skycatcher. I know our local Cessna dealer still trains with one (although I also know they are trying to sell it) you might be able to go that route and then do transition training once you get your own. Assuming there are any Cessna schools in your area that still have Skycatchers. To train in the closest LSA is Nashville. One of the flight schools in Lebanon, TN has a Skycatcher. About 2 1/2 hours drive away unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Then I would say train in whatever you can and the transition training won't be that difficult. Yes, there are differences between a 172 and a CTLS, (I think being active on the rudder is the most significant.) but it is just a matter of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Plus I only plan to fly with tailwinds. I know you're joking, but... Over a flying career, headwinds and tailwinds should roughly even out distance-wise but... 1) Geometry tells us that even a direct, 90° crosswind has a headwind component once you crab into it. 2) Though you may travel equal distances with headwinds and tailwinds, you'll spend a lot more time fighting headwinds. Nobody said life was fair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Oh, and I did finish up one primary student in an SR22, so it is possible, and even has some advantages. Still, my overall preference is to start with something more basic - and cheaper to fly - and then transition up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunny Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 You could have, as we did, BRS install a chute in a Cessna 182. It was a little pricey but well worth the "security blanket" when you are in the dark with no ground reference. The 182 was an essential grandchildren hauler, now not so. The 182 is now with someone else, and I am still looking at LSA's. Hopefully Sebring will have something that meets mission and weight requirements. Sure hate getting heavier as I get older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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