Flight Design insolvency

[gbigs]

Check the latest from Germany. http://flightdesign.com/wordpress/?page_id=9

Aerojones takes over CT support. I'm surprised they got the C4 project.

Not sure what Lindig gets out of the deal.

 

Tough read, but the gist appears to be that Lindig keeps the Flight Design brand and existing facilities/assets in Europe.  AeroJones takes over existing and future customer orders for the CT and gets to complete and sell the C4.  They will also be supplying all support and parts for same. 

 

The big question remaining is what relationship will Lindig have with AeroJones going forward....and how will AeroJones finish the C4 and get it into production.

[ralarcon]

Tough read, but the gist appears to be that Lindig keeps the Flight Design brand and existing facilities/assets in Europe.  AeroJones takes over existing and future customer orders for the CT and gets to complete and sell the C4.  They will also be supplying all support and parts for same. 

 

The big question remaining is what relationship will Lindig have with AeroJones going forward....and how will AeroJones finish the C4 and get it into production.

Agree !

 

Cheers

[Anticept]

I feel like that translates into huge licensing fees to use the brand name.

[ralarcon]

I feel like that translates into huge licensing fees to use the brand name.

Very likely.

 

Cheers

[Anticept]

Going to be honest. It's a bad deal if they can't get the fees written in stone in a contract.

[Tom Baker]

Doesn't Aero Jones already have an licensing agreement in place With Flight Design? After all they were already building aircraft.

[Anticept]

How long does it last though? I'm speaking long term.

 

Granted aerojones getting the rights could mean they could just rebrand.

[gbigs]

Doesn't Aero Jones already have an licensing agreement in place With Flight Design? After all they were already building aircraft.

 

Flight Design no longer exists...so all prior agreements and licenses are voided. 

 

AeroJones was owed a ton of money from the old company....this deal 'pays' them in a sense by giving them not just the licenses but the full rights to the CT and C4 including existing and future orders - but without the liabilities of the old company. 

 

What is still not clear is why they didn't just hand everything over to AeroJones...Lindig is not an aviation company so it is confusing why they are around at all.

[ralarcon]

How long does it last though? I'm speaking long term.

 

Granted aerojones getting the rights could mean they could just rebrand.

"Aero Jones in an asset-only purchase takes ownership of the C4 project and CT business, where the supply of spare parts and support for all models is ensured."

 

This may mean, they cannot re brand. But then I do not know, not a German lawyer.

 

Cheers

[adevw]

"The Lindig group will take over Flight Design under an insolvency plan procedure."

 

All I could find on Google is a furniture store in Germany.

 

Cheers

 

www.lindig.com

[ralarcon]

."Lindig is not an aviation company so it is confusing why they are around at all."

 

"No kidding", maybe it is a German deal where, like Anticept says, they are licensing the product and getting big licensing fees. That way they would not need to manufacture anything. Of course this is conjecture.

 

Cheers

[ralarcon]

www.lindig.com

Yes, forklifts. Who would have thought ?

 

Cheers

[adevw]

Lindig plans the new headquarters of FD at the airfield Eisenach Kindel where they have acquired the former property of the insolvent HELIPARK GmbH in 2015.

 

​Have a look at the picture on this site then you understand why they are interested.

 

http://www.lindig.com/news/-/detail/news/die-zweite-ausgabe-der-imdialog-ist-da-10189

[Anticept]

Oh hey it's the german version of amazon :-D

 

 

"Aero Jones in an asset-only purchase takes ownership of the C4 project and CT business, where the supply of spare parts and support for all models is ensured."

 

This may mean, they cannot re brand. But then I do not know, not a German lawyer.

 

Cheers

 

Makes me curious about the engineering. Are the drawings etc considered assets?

[adevw]

If I read their offer it maybe like this:

 

Lindig takes over FD with all rights and duties. They will sell the MC-project and get the money for the C11.

They will produce the CT in Ukraine and hold all certificates.

 

aerojones get's the exclusive rights for "manufactoring under licence" of the CT-series and the C4  (Like Fiat and Seat or Renault and Dacia. Don't know if there is a similar in US)

 

aerojones for America and Asia market, FD (Lindig) for West-, East-Europe and Afrika

[gbigs]

If I read their offer it maybe like this:

 

Lindig takes over FD with all rights and duties. They will sell the MC-project and get the money for the C11.

They will produce the CT in Ukraine and hold all certificates.

 

aerojones get's the exclusive rights for "manufactoring under licence" of the CT-series and the C4  (Like Fiat and Seat or Renault and Dacia. Don't know if there is a similar in US)

 

aerojones for America and Asia market, FD (Lindig) for West-, East-Europe and Afrika

 

No.  Aerojones got BOTH the CT and the C4.  Lindig is not an aviation company though they appear to be an investor, not a manufacturer.  It is NOT CLEAR at all why they are involved.  When Aerojones gets an order for a CT they make the plane and get the revenue, they also supply the parts ongoing.  It is also not clear how AeroJones completes certification of the C4 before being able to make and sell them.

 

One key element here is the US market.  FD USA has formed a relationship directly with Aerojones to keep existing customers in parts and to take delivery of complete aircraft from Aerojones (new planes have already been delivered since FD announced bankruptcy).  Given the US is the largest Flight Design market it appears Aerojones will be in essence the manufacturer and supplier for the bulk of the fleet anyway.

[IrishAl]

CTLSi, before you flatly contradict him, I suggest you take a breath or two and actually pay attention to what he has said.   

 

What he's said is that:

 

• FD Germany is under new ownership and almost certainly new management. 
• They own the designs, have the right to manufacture, but AJ also has a right to manufacture the CTLS & C4 under license.
• AJ will be the only licensee.
• The world market has been chopped in two, with each supplying exclusive territories.
• Everything for the US will now come from AJ.

And it's almost certainly VERY CLEAR why Lindig are involved - they simply bought the company from the liquidator and are the new owners.  That's a complete assumption on my part but it's almost certainly what he's saying.

 

ADEVW, thanks for the insight - looks like the first clear picture has emerged of the future of FD.

 

What I don't see is any obvious connection with drones......?

[gbigs]

CTLSi, before you flatly contradict him, I suggest you take a breath or two and actually pay attention to what he has said.   

 

What he's said is that:

 

• FD Germany is under new ownership and almost certainly new management. 
• They own the designs, have the right to manufacture, but AJ also has a right to manufacture the CTLS & C4 under license.
• AJ will be the only licensee.
• The world market has been chopped in two, with each supplying exclusive territories.
• Everything for the US will now come from AJ.

And it's almost certainly VERY CLEAR why Lindig are involved - they simply bought the company from the liquidator and are the new owners.  That's a complete assumption on my part but it's almost certainly what he's saying.

 

ADEVW, thanks for the insight - looks like the first clear picture has emerged of the future of FD.

 

What I don't see is any obvious connection with drones......?

 

Based on the information from the press release we do not know what Lindig's role is since they are not an aviation manufacturer.  As I said, FDUSA has a relationship with Aerojones and that is a good thing since Aerojones has the right to sell, make planes and parts.  Since Aerojones is making all the planes and owns the rights to the C4 what is Lindig's role?  Are they going to fire up the old FD plants in Europe?   If the world was not a big enough market for FD how is Lindig going to do better just making and selling aircraft in Europe?  It makes no sense.

[FlyRatz]

Hi,

 

in Germany it is not unusual for a big profit company (e.g. Lindig) to buy a nonprofit company if it is very cheap. In this case the buying company writes off their profit and reduces overall tax.

Maybe we should have this in mind when looking at this specific case.

 

The result could be to have the whole aviation business in the hand of AeroJones and some papers and balances in the hand of Lindig.

[ralarcon]

Hi,

 

in Germany it is not unusual for a big profit company (e.g. Lindig) to buy a nonprofit company if it is very cheap. In this case the buying company writes off their profit and reduces overall tax.

Maybe we should have this in mind when looking at this specific case.

 

The result could be to have the whole aviation business in the hand of AeroJones and some papers and balances in the hand of Lindig.

Makes sense !

 

Cheers

[Flight Design USA]

Hi Guys. I don't want to add fuel to the fire, but I'd also like to comment before the thread devolves back to the Kennedy assassination... I'm in Ukraine at the beach for a week after participated in the second Insolvency hearing in Cottbus, Germany.  I had just returned from Taichung for two days after flight training with the AeroJones test pilots on how to perform production acceptance flights. That was pretty exciting and I can tell you adrenaline beats Jetlag every time. We look forward to spending some time at home but it's unlikely.  

 

I have been beating a constant drum of cooperation between the two parties for a quite while and was the only person to speak about the consumers and owners during the hearings. What you interpreted from the statement is basically true. Lindig-Lift company gets Flight Design GmbH., the EASA Design Organization and associated staff, the facility in Kherson Ukraine, the MC, C11, other engineering contracts and projects with Flight Design. We visited the factory in Kherson and it is running and making airplanes and parts.  A big parts order is coming to the USA with the first shipment of two CTLSi planes later this year.   

 

We met with Herr Lindig last month and have since spoken to him about his plans for the future.  He is a younger man (45-ish) who been very successful in developing their materials handling business, forklifts, cherry picker trucks, platforms etc. It's a big business worldwide and LIFT is a big business in Germany. He is very intelligent, open and kind. His primary motivation is not a tax write off.  His company is a sponsor of many charities in central Germany including a children's hospice, so hold the cynicism till we all learn more. His primary motivation is to see an aviation business grow around the local airport and the region of Thuringia / Eisenach which BTW was the hometown of Martin Luther and JS Bach.  

 

I can't really comment more at this moment and not because of non-disclosure agreement, but it is not appropriate without approval of all parties and the receiver.  Flight Design GmbH. does still exist as they submitted to voluntary insolvency and re-organization, not bankruptcy.

 

AeroJones have contracted to own the complete rights, tooling and documentation for the CT series. What they ultimately do with the older IP is their decision, but I can also tell you after being in constant communication with them as well that they intend to continue producing the CTLS, CTLSi and CTSL, and parts for all model CT. They have bought the complete C4 project. They are determined and funded to finish the C4 as quickly as is possible. To do both of these they plan to establish a new company in Germany and plan to work with several well known Germany consultancies for design and program management. They want to hire the best and the brightest they can find and really do the C4 program correctly. This includes a USA based operation for certification of the C4 with the FAA and possible assembly in the USA as we had promoted before. It simply makes too much sense to not do this as the majority of the parts come from the USA.  

 

What I can tell also you at this moment is that both parties want to support the existing fleet and the owners and AeroJones is in full production of the CTLS-CTLSi currently making planes for the USA and other dealers around the world.  Both parties have also pledged support for our company which is good news for owners in the USA (I hope!) I really could use the rest of the week off and don't often come to the blog so please don't expect me to answer questions and participate like you guys do.  We'd really like to get things more stable again and get back to selling lots of planes again and continuing to support the fleet.  Tom                                                   

[IrishAl]

Tom - thank you for taking the time to share that information.

 

Now that AJ 'own the complete rights' to the CT range, can you confirm if FD Germany have retained the right to manufacture in Germany/Ukraine?

[FlyingMonkey]

Tom, this is all really great news!  It sounds like the clouds are really starting to lift, and this great family of aircraft will continue to flourish.

 

Thanks for all your hard work and dedication to the CT aircraft and their owner/operators!

[ralarcon]

Hi Guys. I don't want to add fuel to the fire, but I'd also like to comment before the thread devolves back to the Kennedy assassination... I'm in Ukraine at the beach for a week after participated in the second Insolvency hearing in Cottbus, Germany.  I had just returned from Taichung for two days after flight training with the AeroJones test pilots on how to perform production acceptance flights. That was pretty exciting and I can tell you adrenaline beats Jetlag every time. We look forward to spending some time at home but it's unlikely.  

 

I have been beating a constant drum of cooperation between the two parties for a quite while and was the only person to speak about the consumers and owners during the hearings. What you interpreted from the statement is basically true. Lindig-Lift company gets Flight Design GmbH., the EASA Design Organization and associated staff, the facility in Kherson Ukraine, the MC, C11, other engineering contracts and projects with Flight Design. We visited the factory in Kherson and it is running and making airplanes and parts.  A big parts order is coming to the USA with the first shipment of two CTLSi planes later this year.   

 

We met with Herr Lindig last month and have since spoken to him about his plans for the future.  He is a younger man (45-ish) who been very successful in developing their materials handling business, forklifts, cherry picker trucks, platforms etc. It's a big business worldwide and LIFT is a big business in Germany. He is very intelligent, open and kind. His primary motivation is not a tax write off.  His company is a sponsor of many charities in central Germany including a children's hospice, so hold the cynicism till we all learn more. His primary motivation is to see an aviation business grow around the local airport and the region of Thuringia / Eisenach which BTW was the hometown of Martin Luther and JS Bach.  

 

I can't really comment more at this moment and not because of non-disclosure agreement, but it is not appropriate without approval of all parties and the receiver.  Flight Design GmbH. does still exist as they submitted to voluntary insolvency and re-organization, not bankruptcy.

 

AeroJones have contracted to own the complete rights, tooling and documentation for the CT series. What they ultimately do with the older IP is their decision, but I can also tell you after being in constant communication with them as well that they intend to continue producing the CTLS, CTLSi and CTSL, and parts for all model CT. They have bought the complete C4 project. They are determined and funded to finish the C4 as quickly as is possible. To do both of these they plan to establish a new company in Germany and plan to work with several well known Germany consultancies for design and program management. They want to hire the best and the brightest they can find and really do the C4 program correctly. This includes a USA based operation for certification of the C4 with the FAA and possible assembly in the USA as we had promoted before. It simply makes too much sense to not do this as the majority of the parts come from the USA.  

 

What I can tell also you at this moment is that both parties want to support the existing fleet and the owners and AeroJones is in full production of the CTLS-CTLSi currently making planes for the USA and other dealers around the world.  Both parties have also pledged support for our company which is good news for owners in the USA (I hope!) I really could use the rest of the week off and don't often come to the blog so please don't expect me to answer questions and participate like you guys do.  We'd really like to get things more stable again and get back to selling lots of planes again and continuing to support the fleet.  Tom                                                   

Great news ! Thanks for the info.

 

Cheers

[Flight Design USA]

Tom - thank you for taking the time to share that information.

 

Now that AJ 'own the complete rights' to the CT range, can you confirm if FD Germany have retained the right to manufacture in Germany/Ukraine?

 

IrishAl. Yes, they do for an as-of-yet undetermined amount of time, but that is not for me to speculate upon.  That is the job of the receiver, Herr Rebholz to negotiate and for AJA and FDG to agree upon. There is good reason for both parties to cooperate and make it work for everyone.