gbigs Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 IrishAl. Yes, they do for an as-of-yet undetermined amount of time, but that is not for me to speculate upon. That is the job of the receiver, Herr Rebholz to negotiate and for AJA and FDG to agree upon. There is good reason for both parties to cooperate and make it work for everyone. Thanks Tom for taking the time to keep the guys here informed... Do you think Aerojones will eventually simply BE the company since they plan to also operate in Germany/Europe? The C4 is clearly the future for the brand...is Lindig only planning to limit themselves to the SLSA only? And the billion buck question...what is your opinion on the FAA and the part 23 rewrite...will Aerojones be able to get the C4 into production by the end of next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 Thanks for all the work, and, I am sure, worry, with all of this. I, and I hope others here know how much you have put into FD USA and FD overall. We greatly appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 Evidently some if you didn't read that he was not taking questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphon Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I wonder what all this means for the creditors ? Any likelihood of being paid ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 If it is the way it normally works here the large creditors will probably get a percentage of what they are owed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Evidently some if you didn't read that he was not taking questions. The answers were not made public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 The answers were not made public.Comment unnecessary. I never said they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I wonder what all this means for the creditors ? Any likelihood of being paid ? Broadly speaking, in a bankruptcy, existing assets are seized and the proceeds are arbitrarily distributed among creditors. However this is not a bankruptcy, so all the assets and liabilities will have to be negotiated. FD's liabilities include those customers (creditors) who paid in advance for aircraft that were not received. I am interested to know what kind of settlement is achieved in these cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Comment unnecessary. I never said they were. Again, the questions were answered but not made public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Again, in the US reorganization often means negotiation with creditors to write down the debt. I, and no one else here (with the possible exception of Tom, and he is not talking) knows exactly what has been done in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Tom clarified and illuminated the situation for the board so people will hopefully stop guessing and assuming the worst. The disposition of debt and delivery obligations and the final re-organization is still under discussion. There is nothing productive about continuing to guess and assume the worst. All the answers will be made public in due course AFTER all parties are satisfied and the process closes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 As I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 It would be hard or impossible not to think the worse if they have had $180,000 of your money for a few years. All the parties will never be satisfied. That's why they are bankrupt. Yes , I can understand that. Keep in mind FDUSA is also a creditor. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishAl Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 It would be hard or impossible not to think the worse if they have had $180,000 of your money for a few years. All the parties will never be satisfied. That's why they are bankrupt. For heaven's sake, read the posts - they're not bankrupt! (See post 396.) Once again I'd like to reiterate that many members of this forum are interested to see what the settlement will be, if any, for customers who prepaid. I hope some of you will let us know when everything is settled and it's appropriate to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 That's a matter of semantics. Tell that to the people who paid for an airplane and have nothing to show for it. This is why Tom had to set the record straight. Those who are engaging in wild speculation and arm waving are doing a disservice to the brand and to those attempting to find an amicable outcome. The negotiations are still in process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 That's easy to say if they don't owe you a new airplane. I wonder if they will all get or got their stock options paid in full. Flight Design is not a public company. No stock. Again. The proceeding is still ongoing...gotta wait to see how it resolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluemeister Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Flight Design is not a public company. No stock. Again. The proceeding is still ongoing...gotta wait to see how it resolves. Private companies have stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Private companies have stock. Private companies can only issue shares to private investors and employees....NOT TO THE PUBLIC. Stock Options are a form of compensation in lieu of cash and have little to no value unless the company goes public or the company buys the stock back higher than when issued. The commentor may not have been aware that Flight Design is a private company and does not have shares in the public market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluemeister Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 The stock has value if there is an agreed upon option for the stock in writing. I speak from personal experience. I sold my stock and the company remained private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Private companies can only issue shares to private investors and employees....NOT TO THE PUBLIC. Stock Options are a form of compensation in lieu of cash and have little to no value unless the company goes public. The commentor may not have been aware that Flight Design is a private company and does not have shares in the public market.Those with more experience know that this is not true. Some companies have private shares and pay dividends on those shares. Employees can purchase them if they so choose and the price varies based on demand. The majority is usually owned by a private board made up of the top share holders. This is called a private corporation.What this has to do with FD we don't know now, do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 The stock has value if there is an agreed upon option for the stock in writing. I speak from personal experience. I sold my stock and the company remained private. That can be true...but there is no evidence FD (a German company) has issued any such private stock or option to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 No, actually that <is> true as opposed to your assertion above. And, to quote myself, " What this has to do with FD we don't know..." There is also no evidence FD (for some reason you decided people here needed to be told it is a German company) hasn't issued any such private stock or option to anyone either, is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfdixon Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 I have not followed this subject for quite a while so plead ignorance and apologize if the answer is somewhere in the 22 pages of posting. Simple questions, are parts available for the CTSW's both FD specific for the air frame and Rotax engine? If so, from what source and average time - understand it depends on what is needed - from ordering to shipping? Tom Boise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT4ME Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 In order to keep the fleet in the air, FD had to assure the US and European Govt agencies that oversee aviation that parts would be available. Delivery time seems to be variable, depending on part and locations. US owners are getting parts, as FDUSA has warehoused at least some parts. I believe AeroJones is now responsible for producing parts. Rotax is separate for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 I have not followed this subject for quite a while so plead ignorance and apologize if the answer is somewhere in the 22 pages of posting. Simple questions, are parts available for the CTSW's both FD specific for the air frame and Rotax engine? If so, from what source and average time - understand it depends on what is needed - from ordering to shipping? Tom Boise All Rotax parts are available from Rotax distributors. Some airframe parts are available from alternate sources. Flight Design specific parts are available from Flight Design USA if they have stock. According to Tom P's post they do have a big parts order coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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