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Cirrus landing info correction


FastEddieB

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Someone recently posted that a Cirrus must be landed with power "all the way to touchdown".

 

I was certified as a Cirrus Standardized Instructor, and that is incorrect - they land power off just fine.

 

From the POH:

 

Normal Landing

Normal landings are made with full flaps with power on or off...

Actual touchdown should be made with power off and on the main wheels first to reduce the landing speed and subsequent need for braking. Gently lower the nose wheel to the runway after airplane speed has diminished. This is especially important for rough or soft field landings.

 

So some power is permissible when landing a Cirrus, but hardly required, or even desirable, and the actual touchdown should be power off, per the POH.

 

I just did not want bad information out there uncontested.

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Someone recently posted that a Cirrus must be landed with power "all the way to touchdown".

 

I was certified as a Cirrus Standardized Instructor, and that is incorrect - they land power off just fine.

 

From the POH:

 

Normal Landing

Normal landings are made with full flaps with power on or off...

Actual touchdown should be made with power off and on the main wheels first to reduce the landing speed and subsequent need for braking. Gently lower the nose wheel to the runway after airplane speed has diminished. This is especially important for rough or soft field landings.

 

So some power is permissible when landing a Cirrus, but hardly required, or even desirable, and the actual touchdown should be power off, per the POH.

 

I just did not want bad information out there uncontested.

 

The 2016 Cirrus SR22T I flew with factory CSIPs required the following in calm winds. 

 

1. The plane is 3600 lbs gross, 1300 lbs useful

2. The cross and downwind is flown with 40% power, full rich, boost on, flaps 0% at 90 kias or faster

3. Abeam power is 40% and flaps set to 50% speed 90ktas or faster

4. Approach full rich, boost on, power cut to 30% and flaps set to 100% till over the threshold @ 80-83 kiasl.

5. Level off, power cut to idle, slight back on stick, slight nose up till mains touch, hold stick back till plane lowers nose.

 

The factory CSIPs instruct these numbers and admonish that if power is cut on final the plane will sink rapidly and require a go-around.  This especially true if a strong headwind or xwind.  There are other models of Cirrus (lighter, less power) and earlier configurations.  The new SR22T flys just as described.

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The 2016 Cirrus SR22T I flew with factory CSIPs required the following in calm winds.,,

 

1. The plane is 3600 lbs gross, 1300 lbs useful

2. The cross and downwind is flown with 40% power, full rich, flaps 0% at 90 kias or faster

3. Abeam power is 40% and flaps set to 50% speed 90ktas or faster

 

4. Approach power cut to 30% and flaps set to 100% till over the threshold @ 80-83 kias and level off.

5. Power cut to idle, slight back on stick till mains touch, hold stick back till plane lowers nose.

 

 

 

 

All that's fine.

 

Your original quote was: "And you must use power all the way to touchdown."

 

​That's what I was taking issue with.

 

What you've outlined above is SOP, and you'll be fine staying with those numbers.

 

Have fun with your transition training - they're really great planes.

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All that's fine.

 

Your original quote was: "And you must use power all the way to touchdown."

 

​That's what I was taking issue with.

 

What you've outlined above is SOP, and you'll be fine staying with those numbers.

 

Have fun with your transition training - they're really great planes.

 

Eddie.

 

 I knew you were a Cirrus CSIP and former owner.   I also did not mean to generalize in the other post regarding the plane...I thought I did refer to the heavier SR22T.....

 

We did decide on the 2016 Cirrus SR22T over the Lancair.  I was not happy retrofitting a parachute into the Lancair or not having a certified plane.

 

In my nutty style, it's loaded... 12 inch G1000/Perspective, ADS-B in/out 2020 compliant, GFC 700 AP, Garmin Flightstream Bluetooth gateway, Digital package, Yaw Damper, eTaws, Tanis engine heater, Keyless entry with LED lighting, EVS camera, FIKI, A/C, carbon styling and badging.

 

We do still own the FD CT.  Several have shown interest but none seriously.  We are fine owning two planes.

 

Once we ordered the Cirrus we stepped into a fantastic world of hyper professionalism and quality product.  As you know the transition training alone is as comprehensive as an entire PPL training.  I already have 8 hours in the plane flying with the local sales/CSIPs.  We are getting a full 6 day course including instrument training in Diluth...starts March 7 in our own plane.  Then fly it home.

 

This plane will be the last one we own.... I will post pictures of it soon.

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Burgers, see, before you know it, you've prompted another question.

 

Eddie's info says approaches can be made with or without power, but you say the Cirrus people actively teach you to approach at 30% power until over the runway.   

 

I can't understand why this is taught, as it put's the aircraft at unnecessary risk on every approach.

Cirrus say cutting power early will cause 'rapid sink'; so will an engine failure.  

 

Why are pilots of light piston aircraft not taught to approach at or near idle, so that if the engine quits, you can still be sure of making the runway without any panic manoeuvres like raising the flaps to try to scrape home?

 

And, of course, this is the most likely phase for a fanstop for most of us, with icing the main threat.

 

It just seems to make no sense to me to give up all that altitude early on and then risk a shortage of it on final every time you land.

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Most of my Cirrus time was in my 2003 NA SR22, but a lot was in other's SR22s and SR20's. Probably a couple thousand landings both as PIC and instructor.

 

I have at most an hour or two in a turbo, and those were in the turbo-normalized Tornado Alley Turbo installation, not the SR22T.

 

Most of these have composite props. For whatever reason, those props have noticeably more drag when the engine is at idle, and they do come down rather steeply. Steeply enough that it might unnerve passengers. Hence, I see why a bit of power in the pattern makes some sense. I would probably use some, per the Training Manual - the "S" in CSIP stands for "Standardized"

 

On the other hand, no power is necessary when approaching to land. It's all about energy management. I like to be at idle by 50' or so, and if one is smoothly coming back from an already low power setting, it's not too scary - just lower the nose, roundout and flare.

 

I would encourage every Cirrus pilot to perfect power off landings from abeam the numbers. They are required for Commercial because they're a valuable tool. Maybe make every 10th landing power off to stay in practice. With a composite prop, the pilot better turn base almost immediately - it WILL be an elevator ride. But perfectly doable with practice.

 

Here's a nice power-off landing by a student in his SR22:

 

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Congratulations!

 

I think you made an excellent choice.

 

Have you joined COPA?

 

We will join after we get the plane back home...about mid March.  Yes.  We immediately felt we did the right thing an hour after signing the contract.  It was amazing how fast the factory set us up with Portal training, and started sending pictures of the plane as it was being made on the factory floor.

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Hey Burger, I hope you'll stick around this forum after the purchase and post your pilot/ownership experiences.  It's interesting stuff, and I'm curious to see how you relate it to your CT experience.   

 

And congrats on the new airplane, very exciting!

 

Mr. Morden....thanks for the re-welcome.  I will be here and will put out pictures and info... 

 

The first plane I owned and still own is the FD CT as you know and still have a foot in this world.  The two planes are very different and have a totally different mission.  And each their own strong points and idiosynchs....

 

Cirrus provided us with a PC based G1000/Perspective simulator and we have been flying all kinds of scenarios with it and getting the screens down pretty well.  I have also been flying the same plane we have ordered - the 2016 SR22T thanks to  Northern CA sales/CSIPs. 

 

The big difference I sense so far is power management, speed, the side yoke (stiffer), the toe-brakes and the large constant speed prop that acts like a wind dam on approach.  The Cirris is also an IFR cross country cruiser so I am getting an instrument rating to be able to fly above FL180 and get a better rate on insurance.  The Cirrus is so much faster so pilot load increases in regard to panel and radio work (quick switch between frequencies and watching for traffic), something that immiately hits you. 

 

Yea Al, but I will behave this time....I actually missed you guys too....  Cirrus makes three models..the SR20, SR22, and SR22T.  The SR22T (315hp twin turbo) has changed over the past two years - it got 300 pounds heavier and does have faster approach and over the numbers speeds from the other models and previous years.  Eddie is a CSIP and will answer better why...I am still a student in the plane and won't be able to really say why I am told X versus what has been taught in the past for a good while.

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Found this Cirrus power-off approach and landing on YouTube:

 

 

Just to point out that there's nothing scary or unusual about a power off approach in a Cirrus.

 

I do not know the prop type here, but if it was not a composite, then imagine the same thing, but just a tad steeper/closer for the composite prop.

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Hey Eddie, windy at Wimpy's that day? That was downhill right? I've only been there once with Andy, but I remember it being kinda steep.

Don't remember the wind that day.

 

I never noticed any grade. I just checked and WingXPro7 says ".2° Up/Down". Not sure I could discern 2/10 of one degree!

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I don't know, but Wimpy's has always seemed sloped to me.  Here's the takeoff "downhill":

 

 

and the landing what looks "uphill" to me:

 

 

If I did the gradient calculation properly, with the runway being 3090ft per Skyvector.com, one end is about 61 feet lower than the other end.  Not a huge amount, but left as an exercise to each individual viewer as to whether it's noticeable.   :)

 

Was was told by airport personnel to back taxi and takeoff "downhill". 

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Am I correct that a runway sloped at 45° would be a 50% gradient? In that case, not a huge difference in real life.

 

I remember this confused me when I got certified as a Personal Trainer, in regards to treadmills, in that case.*

 

In any case, Wimpy's never looked sloped to me, and I'm not picking it up in the videos, either.

 

 

 

*I wonder if anyone has ever thought about putting an airplane on a treadmill?

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Well, according to the link I posted, a 1% gradient adds or subtracts 10% to the effective runway length depending on direction, so it adds up pretty quickly.  So Wimpy's is ~0.2% less/more effective length depending on direction of travel -- that same 61ft.  Not an issue in an LSA there, but people land twins at Wimpy's...

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Well, according to the link I posted, a 1% gradient adds or subtracts 10% to the effective runway length depending on direction, so it adds up pretty quickly. So Wimpy's is ~2% less/more effective length depending on direction of travel -- that same 61ft. Not an issue in an LSA there, but people land twins at Wimpy's...

The gradient was not expressed as 2%. It was one order of magnitude smaller, at .2%. Two tenths of one percent.

 

Either way, I still can't see it!

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