FastEddieB Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Does anyone have any new Marc Ingegno brake pads? If so, I'd like to know the exact thickness of the pad material when new. I'm still on my original pads after about 9 years and about 450 hours. When it's time to replace the pads, I'm thinking of riveting on new linings rather than ponying up what I recall were exorbitant prices for the new pads. I found some at Aircraft Spruce that are nearly identical in shape. I just need to know if they're too thick, and if so how far I have to get them shaved down to fit. Andy was nice enough to give me his old Marc Ignego parts to play with, so I can start the experimenting before I absolutely have to. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Hi Eddie, You sure they have rivets and aren't glued on? The Marc pads can go down to a thickness of 1mm, but that is for their pads that are glued on. I haven't seen any Marc pads with rivets. I can get a thickness when I go back out to the hangar, but it will be for the glued on pads. The glued on pads can go thinner than rivet pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Mine are glued on. I would be removing all the pad material and drilling for the rivet spacing on the pads I obtained. Barring all that, do you have a good source for the stock pads at a good price? I think last I looked they were like $50/pad. No big rush - I may have years left on mine, and IIRC Andy's had life on them as well. Just planning for the future, is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Marc has no good prices on stock pads. They are plain expensive. As far as I know they only sell the pad mounted to the plate. Adding rivets may make the steel plate and pad combo too thick once you have to have extra pad to accommodate the rivets. The pad wear limit would change too. The best way to work with that is to take a small Dremel tool bit and notch out a small visual notch on each pad edge and this would be the new wear limit mark. Once that notch goes away to to replace. You might be able to get some pads let's say from Matco and then drill your plates. Pads are easy enough to shape on a grinder or sander. p.s. I'm pretty sure the new thickness is 4mm. A set of 4 Marc's (complete) are approximately $135. I buy Matco's reline kit for around $25 for 4. Then I rivet them myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 One nice thing about marcs is that they do last a LOT longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 There was a post that had a link to a place selling brake parts that had pads for the Marc brakes. I think they were in Europe, but the prices seemed OK. I'll have to see if I can find the link. Here you go. http://ctflier.com/index.php?/topic/3321-marc-ingegno-brake-parts/?hl=%2Bbrake+%2Bpads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 But Marc's fade under heat and don't stop as well partly because their master cylinder puts out a lot less pressure than say a Matco MC. They may last longer because they are harder pads which also may be part of the reason they don't stop as well. Pads cost too much and are harder to come by. This is the reason I got with Matco many years ago to get the CT setup for the Matco's. FD has been using Matco's since Jan. 2009 and I was using them in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 CT_Matt and I have replaced our pads and they came from Ohio. Matt ordered the pins from Europe. https://www.1motoshop.com/search?controller=search&orderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=905&submit_search= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 That Moto website says they are no longer in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Well, this is a little embarrassing! I drove over to the hangar yesterday to investigate and take photos. Clipped to my new pads was this: Apparently years ago I had asked the same question and a fellow Sky Arrow owner (who now owns 2) had responded. I had totally forgotten. Hope this is useful info for others. First a bunch of good news... 1) After 450 hours my original pads still look good: 2) The ones Andy gave me look pretty good as well, and when mine get too thin I'll just swap those in: This shows how the pads I bought (@ $6.50 each) compare with the stockers: But they are a bit thicker than the 4mm Roger stated: Would not be hard to take the thickness down with a belt sander. (BTW, I love Roger's idea of Dremeling a wear indicator to catch wear before the rivet head is reached.) Now for the bad news... I noticed in the AMM that the minimum allowable thickness for the rotor was .167 inches. Oops! Coincidentally, checking Andy's... Looks like to be safe I'm in the market for some new rotors. Can anyone point me to a good online source for these? I might as well replace them while things are apart for my annual. Oh, and for those with the Marc Ingegno brakes, you might want to check your rotor thickness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I haven't seen anyone change the rotors yet. You may want to keep them and check them at the next annual. That thickness difference should not be an issue. I have used ones, but have never measured them. The difference in rotor thickness may help you install the thicker pads. Your riveted pads could work so long as they don't drag because they are thicker. yes you can reduce the thickness with a belt sander. It can be tricky at times to keep them perfectly flat and not get one end or the other higher do to a little extra hand pressure on one side or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I have used parts. Ill check them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Thanks, guys. I was surprised. I think our pad wear kinda indicates that neither Andy nor I are serial brake abusers, so having our rotors out of limits so soon is odd. The rotors sure don't "seem" thin. That minimum spec is from 3i, not from Marc Ingegno, so that may be suspect as well. Corey, I'm really curious what you find. If yours are a whole lot thicker, of course I'm interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT_MATT Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Fast Eddie, I purchased a set of rotors from 1MOTOSHOP as well. they are not identical to the stock but you might be interested as they were about $50/each. This is the part number GOLDfren Aircraft Rotor 400-520. I havent needed to use them as mine are still in really good shape but, having spares is nice because they are not easy to get quickly. As Tip said, I too recently replaced that pads with pads from 1MOTO and they are working just fine. Speed.com (in Italy) is another good source if you want Marc parts but, they are more expensive and it takes some coordination to order from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Eddie, your pads might look good because the rotors are wearing instead? If the pads are hard, or if the pads are sintered metal and the rotors aren't stainless or hard metal, the rotors will wear faster than the pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Eddie, what is the difference in the thickness where you show measuring it and the area around where the pins are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Eddie, your pads might look good because the rotors are wearing instead? If the pads are hard, or if the pads are sintered metal and the rotors aren't stainless or hard metal, the rotors will wear faster than the pads. That's a thought. These are still the stock pads as delivered with my Sky Arrow. I think Andy's were original as well, as delivered with his CT. I would have thought the stock parts would be compatible with each other, but who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Eddie, what is the difference in the thickness where you show measuring it and the area around where the pins are? That brings up a good point. The way I was measuring would only measure the thickest part of the rotor - the area swept by the pads might be thinner still. The photo of me measuring Andy's makes it look like the wear is pretty consistent across the face of the rotor. I'll check the unworn pin area next time I'm at the hangar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 One further question... Does Flight Design specify the same .167" minimum thickness for their Marc-equipped planes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I feel like the .167" thickness is bullshit. Measuring several places on THREE DIFFERENT ROTORS, where it was was untouched by the pads, I'm getting less than that minimum spec. Only one measurement out of 9 was higher than that, and it was only .169". Most were from .155" to .165" Granted, my caliper is not calibrated, nor do I have a gauge block. Opening and closing the caliper 6 inches will throw it off by about 0.005", and, using my calibrated eye, it's on the money on a 1 inch ruler so at least it's consistent. Anyways, in general, rotor thickness is for its ability to act as a heat sink under heavy breaking so there isn't any canning (warping) issues (pretty easily seen if it happens). The matcos are a little more sensitive to excessive wear (can cause the piston to tip), but you really have to eat into it to get to that point, and you can visually see the wear. Honestly, I would tell you not to worry about it. You seem to be pretty delicate on your brakes anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Eddie, I think there are still some misc. original wheel & brake parts in my hangar if you want them. I can take some pics if you want to see what's there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 This thread got me thinking about checking my Matco brakes. My pads were just down to where the rivets were barely being brushed by the rotor. Have over 600 landings on this set of pads. Matco uses standard 66-106 three rivet pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted April 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 This thread got me thinking about checking my Matco brakes. My pads were just down to where the rivets were barely being brushed by the rotor. Glad my faulty memory had at least one positive outcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 This thread got me thinking about checking my Matco brakes. My pads were just down to where the rivets were barely being brushed by the rotor. Have over 600 landings on this set of pads. Matco uses standard 66-106 three rivet pads. Good save. Those rivets would tear the rotor up. There are small notches in the end of the pads, pictured near the rivets. Those are wear indicators. If they are nearly gone, it's time to replace the pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Good save. Those rivets would tear the rotor up. There are small notches in the end of the pads, pictured near the rivets. Those are wear indicators. If they are nearly gone, it's time to replace the pads. Exactly. I have been through one set of the Matco pads already. If you run the wear indicator to the bottom, you will tear up your brakes. They need to be replaced when there is still some of the U showing in the indicator. My experience is that the Matco pads wear through much faster than the Marc pads. I replaced my first Matco pads with about 200 hours on them. But then again, I don't baby my brakes, and use them more than some do. I consider brake pads a wear item, and for the cheap price and easy replacement of the Matco pads it doesn't bother me. Last time I needed them I bought two sets so I always have a set ready if I need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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