procharger Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 Anyone seen these engines v-twin 136 HP they are working on 120 HP 4 cylinder.same weight around 120 pounds. They also have their own fuel injection for rotax engines. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 Curious as to the fuel consumption. Here's the page: http://www.sodemo.com/en/14/the-v2-engine.html However I don't see much about any actual products that are available for purchase, other than tuning renault engines. Tuning is one thing, manufacturing is a whole different ballgame. Props to them if they pull it off though, more competition is better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted May 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 They are in final testing now saw video on tube at Oshgosh with Dan Johnson Just type sodemo youtube video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityKnight Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 They also have their own fuel injection for rotax engines. cool, interested to see what they come up with here.. there are several systems out there now, I like seeing more of this, maybe one day one of them will be more affordable This is what I want to know more about http://www.engineering.com/DesignerEdge/DesignerEdgeArticles/ArticleID/7071/Nissans-40kg-400HP-Engine.aspx (400hp, 88lbs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 It's a racing engine. It's not designed to last longer than the race. We can build engines that give OBSCENE horsepower and torque, but if we want any longevity, then we need to beef it up some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted May 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 20,000 RPM?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityKnight Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 It's a racing engine. It's not designed to last longer than the race. We can build engines that give OBSCENE horsepower and torque, but if we want any longevity, then we need to beef it up some. Or de-tune it I've built engines that made more HP for their size (CID) than that engine, and they lasted much longer than 1 race (probably comparable weight/hp wise too). I wouldn't run one in an airplane at that level for obvious reasons. Who's to say an engine like that de-tuned to ~150hp wouldn't last. It would still be impressive hp/weight wise. There is no free lunch, but the point is as technology advances, we keep seeing more HP, less weight, and still a long life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Right, but how did you drive them? Racing conditions and aircraft engines are two of the roughest possible circumstances you can subject an engine to. An engine that stays at one RPM or gently shifts to another is going to last and last. On the other hand, driving them from one extreme to another constantly, that's harder to compensate for :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityKnight Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Right, but how did you drive them? Racing conditions and aircraft engines are two of the roughest possible circumstances you can subject an engine to. An engine that stays at one RPM or gently shifts to another is going to last and last. On the other hand, driving them from one extreme to another constantly, that's harder to compensate for :-) Hence my comment about not running one in an aircraft tuned to those obscene levels. I could beat on one as hard as possible but in the end you can't hold something like that wide open very long in a car or you are doing 180mph. But build it right, find a way to take the heat out of it properly, and I wouldn't be afraid of extracting some pretty good power out of an engine in an aircraft. 2000hr TBO, maybe not Of course it depends on the aircraft as well.. something STOL that can land in a field when the prop stops is different to me than something with an 80mph stall speed and tiny tires! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 They must be using a crazy amount of boost from the turbo. I doubt they can run endurance racing with being required to detune or beef it up. I also wonder at what point being light is no longer an advantage in endurance racing? Some of you may remember Mercedes misadventure into that series. A bit if embarrassment as this happened to two cars: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityKnight Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 It's set for la mans While the DIG-T R powered ZEOD will be on the track at this year’s 24 Hours of Le Mans be interesting to see how it holds up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 They must be using a crazy amount of boost from the turbo. I doubt they can run endurance racing with being required to detune or beef it up. I also wonder at what point being light is no longer an advantage in endurance racing? Some of you may remember Mercedes misadventure into that series. A bit if embarrassment as this happened to two cars: When a car decides it wants to be a plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 The Sodemo engine is completely untested in an aircraft. No engine designed for a car or motorcycle will work in an aircraft for long. The tolerance are too tight in auto/motorcycle engines and they can't take the air density and temperature rate changes aircraft engines are designed to take. There is effort to use auto diesels in an aircraft but they are a bogus idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 And yet VW, Geo, Corvair, Corvette, and various other engines have been used for decades. I know a guy that has a mercury outboard engine in his experimental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityKnight Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 No engine designed for a car or motorcycle will work in an aircraft for long. The tolerance are too tight in auto/motorcycle engines and they can't take the air density and temperature rate changes aircraft engines are designed to take. And you have literally no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 The dictionary calls it trumpery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
procharger Posted May 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 My understanding a Rotax has tolerances tighter than most engines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 The Sodemo engine is completely untested in an aircraft. No engine designed for a car or motorcycle will work in an aircraft for long. The tolerance are too tight in auto/motorcycle engines and they can't take the air density and temperature rate changes aircraft engines are designed to take. There is effort to use auto diesels in an aircraft but they are a bogus idea. Toyota worked with RAM to develop and test a 4.0 Lexus V8 for aircraft use. The engine was put in a Piper Malibu and flown for 200 hours with no problem. The engine performed flawlessly, but Toyota decided not to move forward with the project. IIRC there was also a V8 based on a aluminum big block Chevrolet that was STC'd for aircraft use. Their target market was AG planes to get away from the old radial engines, but turbines took over that market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 From Flying Magazine: http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/do-car-engines-make-good-airplane-engines "Car engines are designed to provide quick bursts of relatively high power output for acceleration, and then only modest power output for steady-state cruising. It’s unusual for an auto engine to operate anywhere near its redline rpm or max-rated power output. Airplanes, on the other hand, usually take off and climb near 100 percent power output, followed by steady-state cruise often at 75 percent power. Aircraft engines are designed to sustain this punishment reliably over a typical 2,000-hour service life." The Astro diesels are still too new to evaluate in regard to length of life and the Viking engines are still not in working aircraft at all. But we are not talking just about small planes with a 10k foot ceiling, we are talking about full aviation capability with planes that can get to just below and into the flight levels routinely as well. Trump? Oh yea, he is the next president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 For the record - I said nothing about any presidential candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Mooney tried the auto route with a Porsche engine. It bombed. It cost Porsche $75 million in 1985 dollars to make 80 engines. Then abandoned the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 That last post of 100Hamburger is lifted directly from someone else's post over on COPA, without attribution. Very bad form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 Engines are engines. Nothing magical makes one an "airplane" engine. Some are more suitable for aircraft use because of cooling, rpm power bands, weight, layout, or a host of other factors, but those are all design considerations, not magical aircraft pixie dust. I know a lot of guys running auto conversions in airplanes. Some are fantastic, some are disasters. It all depends on the suitability of the engine to the purpose, and how well thought out the conversion is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 Engines are engines. Nothing magical makes one an "airplane" engine. Some are more suitable for aircraft use because of cooling, rpm power bands, weight, layout, or a host of other factors, but those are all design considerations, not magical aircraft pixie dust. I know a lot of guys running auto conversions in airplanes. Some are fantastic, some are disasters. It all depends on the suitability of the engine to the purpose, and how well thought out the conversion is. I would debate you on this, and would have my regs book and ACs handy because engine certification has some very blood stained history behind it. A difficult part of certification isn't demonstrating of an engine runs or not, but rather the FAILURE MODES. A classic is the cylinder failure test. I believe, and feel free to correct me as I don't have the reference, is that an aircraft engine must be able to handle a catastrophic cylinder failure and continue to run at full power for 30 minutes before stopping, siezed or otherwise. This turns out to be an astoundingly difficult test to meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEddieB Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 A classic is the cylinder failure test. I believe, and feel free to correct me as I don't have the reference, is that an aircraft engine must be able to handle a catastrophic cylinder failure and continue to run at full power for 30 minutes before stopping, siezed or otherwise. This turns out to be an astoundingly difficult test to meet. Just offhand, depending on how one describes "catastrophic cylinder failure" and "full power", that would seem to go from difficult to impossible to meet. Why? Well, just the loss of that cylinder in a 4 cylinder engine would drop the power by 25%, so there goes your full power regardless. And many cylinder failures lead to oil loss, and without oil an engine will seize in very short order. I'd love to see the test that you're referring to, if you can find a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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