S3flyer Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 Roger -- Back in November 2015 Rotax introduced an new oil radiator with the reason: 1.3) Reason In the course of continuous development and standardization new oil radiators (part no. 886000/ 886002/886004) have been introduced. In comparison with the current oil radiators (part no. 886022/886023/886024) the following changes were necessary: - Modifications in the dimensions of the oil radiator - Increase of the number of radiator fins The width is the same as the current radiators and the height is essentially the same for each of the sizes (small, medium and large). The engineering drawing shows quite a bit more fins (I think). Is there evidence or field experience with these and do the additional fins aide in cooling? si-912-024.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 Hi dave, What about length? If it is the same size then additional fins or oil channels will increase the thermal BTU release or transfer of heat. It will be more metal surface area exposed to the cooler outside air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted July 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 It's 2mm thicker, same width and 1 to 5mm taller depending on the Rotax size. The SB has the old radiator and new radiator dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 It would be helpful if they were rated in Btu's or even horse power. Something to tell the relative difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 Hi Dave, Those dimensions won't be an issue. Ed, If all we are talking about is pushing the engine harder then a better heat exchanger (more fins to exchange and release heat) may help. How much is anybody's guess. Hec, It's only money and that can be replaced and someone has to be the researcher (guinea pig). Congrats ED you have been selected by an independent panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 It shows no rating and looks like a 10 row cooler. Why go half way. I still like the Seatrab, FD uses it, its good for 220-310hp or 27,000-37,000 Btu/hr. I think that's about double our stock coolers. I would expect to need a thermostat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 More plumbing and it gets in the way. I'd stay with tape. You certainly get cold up there and for months at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 I'l do without the thermostat if I can. It does get cold where I live but not so much at the other end of my trips. Not many stops half way elevation wise to add tape to keep from freezing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3flyer Posted July 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 FWIW -- I have a 180F Permacool thermostat and have not had issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 The permacool thermostats do a fantastic job. Had one fail open* and things got hot, but it still managed. It's designed to be impossible for it to completely bypass the cooler, nor will it completely shunt oil to it. *permacool thermostat bodies act like cooler bypasses when the vernatherm is open. It flows through the body rather than being forced through the cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
207WF Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 This new radiator looks very interesting. I now have the "large" sized version of the older one shown in the SB. The new one is .08" longer, .29" wider and the same thickness, per the drawing. And with more cooling fins. Are we going to get a letter from Tom P authorizing this, or is this not needed since its a rotax approval? This would allow me to avoid the hassle of going ELSA, and I might want to try it. WF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 This new radiator looks very interesting. I now have the "large" sized version of the older one shown in the SB. The new one is .08" longer, .29" wider and the same thickness, per the drawing. And with more cooling fins. Are we going to get a letter from Tom P authorizing this, or is this not needed since its a rotax approval? This would allow me to avoid the hassle of going ELSA, and I might want to try it. WF Tom P. indicated I could get an approval for the Seatrab. Its even a FD part but the FD part cost $2,000. where its only a $200 cooler. Tom said I probably wanted to fabricate my own. This just means fastening the new $200 cooler to a new radiator with brackets instead of welds. If you go with the Rotax upgrade the approval would be a new process I bet where the Seatrab is FD's standard upgrade and was getting an MRA 3 years ago. You know the Seatrab has plenty of capacity, the Rotax cooler doesn't state a capacity. It looks like another 10 row cooler so I bet its similar. The cooler that Tom is talking about below is the Seatrab series 6, 19 row cooler. Ed: There is a standard specification larger oil cooler and they are making an MRA to support it. I’ll have Dave try and find out from Customer Care What the FD part number is. I assume you’d rather make up your own than buy the FD part? Also it’s puzzling, you think that the planes once ran cooler and now run hotter? Why is that? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 Rotax has nothing to do with cooling accessory approvals. They do sell radiators and coolers, but it's up the the MFG or builder to use whatever they want. This is strictly an FD item to approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
207WF Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Anyone know the rotax part number for the Seatrab radiator? WF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 I found a partnumber on the Canadian float plane but it wasn't FD, Rotax or Seatrab. There is a FD number but its $2,000 instead of $200. I don't think there would be a Rotax pn. I don't think Rotax coolers are this high capaicity. The Seatrab number is 50-619-7612 Series 6 19 row 27,000-37,000 Btu range http://www.setrabusa.com/products/oilcoolers/engine/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
207WF Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Sorry, how about the FD part number? WF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Sorry, how about the FD part number? WF Tom P said he could have Dave A? send it to me, but that was a while ago. Contact FD USA and ask for it and ask if it would be available, think they were fabricated in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 here is the Setrab cooler installed on the amphib CTSW in Québec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
207WF Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 I am working on MRA for the Seatrab, willing to pay the fee, but it will be at least a few weeks to get drawing together and approval. WF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 It might be worth it for us to split the cost and have the work done together? How far along are you on the mounting? I wonder what Jacque's mounting looks like? The FD Engineering will be based on your fabrication or their part? Are you planning on a thermostat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 NOT on my plane but looks like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 Thanks Jacques ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
207WF Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I am working with Wayne Flemington at F70. He fabricates experimental stuff and builds custom rotax engines, so he has the skills. I will take him the new cooler on Saturday. He also owns a CTSW that he can use to help design the install. I plan to make some drawings and send them to Tom, so he can be confident it will be done in an airworthy manor. Then, hopefully we get the letter and do the install. I don't mind paying Tom to help keep the lights on. He is a good guy. No thermostat in the plan. If the Seatrab works too well, I will declare victory and use metal tape in the winter. WF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Cesnalis Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I want one too. Can I Get Wayne's contact info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
207WF Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Hi, Ed: Tried to pm you, but the page says you can't receive any more messages. I tried to fly over to F70 early this morning to deliver the Seatrab to Wayne and get the process started, but I had to turn back when at 3,000 feet (and 102F OAT) I could not climb at all while keeping oil temp below 250. This will have to wait until things cool off, maybe next week. The whole process will take some time, but I will post when the new radiator is installed and report on how well it works. Then, I am sure that Wayne will be happy to have the business and do this for other folks. WF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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