Solvents and cleaning: a primer

[Anticept]

Hey all!

 

Got another useful info post for you! This one is on CLEANERS AND SOLVENTS!

 

There's a lot of solvents available at aviation outlets to use, some of which can also be obtained from paint stores. Here they are and general use:

 

WARNING: Except for soap and water, these all readily evaporate and are considered FLAMMABLE. While these solvents are not dangerous unless grossly mishandled, you should only use these solvents in well ventilated areas, use rated respirators with VOC filtering and protect your skin from contact. As always, read the labeling and MSDS.

 

Soap and water: Obviously the go-to for general cleaning, but it's worth mentioning. A cautionary note though: don't use alkaline (basic) soaps! Super mild alkaline soaps *might* be OK. I had washed mine for a while years ago using highly diluted zep, which brings its pH more towards neutral, and never saw ill effects, but it's just not worth the risk of a collapsed sandwich core. Some areas have basic water too, so watch out!

 

When washing, first wet the area to be washed to flush away large debris. On windows, it's a good idea to take it a step further and lightly wipe before getting into washing.

 

Always wash windows in the direction of wind to minimize etching! That means on the windscreen, that would be up and down. On the side windows, that's side to side. DO NOT WASH IN CIRCLES. This creates swirls.

 

Suggested use: general cleaning, obviously!

 

Isopropyl alcohol: Doesn't do a good job of cleaning much of anything, except the cuts on your hand (I swear planes don't run on fuel, they run on blood sacrifices) and washing away solvent films. This the latter reason that it's mentioned, it's a great "chaser" for other oily cleaners. Just don't call me if you misinterpret what I meant by chasing and drank it!

 

The Petroleum Distillates Umbrella:

 

Petroleum Distillates actually come in a lot of forms. Overall, what is listed here are very mild solvents, which have a very, very low toxicity (classified as an irritant). It works very very well on oils and greases. Great for cleaning parts!

 

Using an engine bay cleaner wand, you can very easily clean the engine bay by blowing a mist around inside of the bay and it will loosen and clean. DO NOT RUN THE AIRCRAFT UNTIL COMPLETELY DRY. I repeat, this stuff is FLAMMABLE until dry. It will smell unusual as the residue burns off but quickly subsides.

 

ODORLESS mineral spirits: Most common general purpose cleaner after soap & water. No matter what it says on the can, will leave residue. Follow up with isopropyl alcohol to wash away the film if necessary.

 

Naptha: Little stronger petrol distillate. Evaporates fast and isn't as oily as odorless mineral spirits.

 

Toluene & xylene: Really strong and dry (not oily, and evaporates fast) form of petrol distillates. Good glue thinner, it also is a decent general purpose cleaner for tough to clean spots. Does a fantastic job of cleaning off glue residue and removing stickers (goof-off is mostly toluene/xylene!). Be cautious about some paints though, this may interact with them. It also is somewhat effective at removing sealants.

 

Toluene & xylene WILL react with some rubbers and destroy them!

 

The hard solvents:

 

This is the stuff that's strong. These are organic ketone solvents.

 

Acetone: our body produces this compound, and it's mildly toxic when breathing concentrations. Severe exposure will cause issues. As long as you are in a well ventilated area and control exposure including skin contact, you'll be fine. A respirator with VOC ratings is suggested. Get to fresh air if you feel odd.

 

Acetone will soften acrylic, and make poly-carbonate brittle, so keep it away from windows. This will weaken most paints too. It can also slowly attack epoxies if left in contact for long periods of time, but it evaporates almost immediately and completely, so it's a great surface prep compound before a layup. Can attack some composite cores, but not others.

 

Suggested use: cleaning where petrol distillates didn't work, surface prep for composite work,

 

Methyl Ethyl Ketone: Serious stuff. Handle with caution: use gloves and respirators! It's not well studied, but tests have shown it can cause problems in lab animals in high concentrations. It's also an extremely powerful inhalant, you will get buzzed quickly if you don't use a proper respirator with VOC filtering. Get to fresh air if you feel odd.

 

It's a great surface prep compound before the next layup. It evaporates almost as fast as acetone, and also evaporates completely.

 

Use caution with this solvent though. It attacks EVERYTHING except metal. You can strip paint with it. It will destroy most composite cores. It's a catalyst for some epoxy compounds, and subsequently can eat it up too.

 

Suggested use: Use if acetone doesn't cut it, but it will cut everything else too. Generally for things like rubber sealants (RTV) on metal parts and surface prep. It's not a magic solvent; it still needs time to work, but don't let it sit on anything except metal or you'll quickly find how strong of a compound that this is.

 

If this won't do the job, you're not going to find much that's relatively safe that will.

[Roger Lee]

"Oil Eater" will replace all your hard solvents. It cuts grease and grime like it's a hard solvent, but it is water based and biodegradable. It won't hurt you windshield if you get it on. The grime on the bottom of the plane starts to run off as soon as you spray it. No, don't use it to wash your plane, but cleaning grimy areas is a snap. I works better than Simple Green. I also use it on my kitchen hood and stove for greasy clean up and I pour it into a bucket of water or into a floor machine to clean the hangar floors.

No it won't hurt your CT skin so long as you don't soak the entire plane washing it in the stuff. Spray on a wipe off is just fine. Used on every plane in the shop for 10 years and not a single issue.

 

You can buy it in a spray bottle, a 1 gal. jug or I buy it in 5 gal. pale. best stuff I have ever used.

[Anticept]

The hard solvents aren't for oil cutting. The petrol distillates work better than them at oil and grease. The hard solvents is more for specialized tasks like removing RTV.

[FlyingMonkey]

In the past I have used oil eater to dissolve bugs on my leading edges, then wipe off immediately and follow up with spray wax.  

 

For the same task I now keep a bucket of water with Composiclean Bucket Wash in it, slosh that with a microfiber towel over leading edges.  Just as easy and less harsh.

[FredG]

Corey, I strongly suggest you avoid making statements regarding acetone (and other solvents) like:  "it's very mildly toxic when breathing high concentrations, but the effects are transient."   In fact, when breathing "high concentrations" of acetone, people die.  They experience central nervous system depression followed by unconsciousness followed by cessation of breathing followed by death.  If rescued prior to death, permanent brain injury is possible. This is not a personal opinion, it is a toxicological fact.  

 

Furthermore, saying that acetone is not a big deal because "our bodies produce this compound" is seriously misleading about its effects on human health.  Our bodies produce lots of things that can and do kill humans in sufficient doses.  

 

Overall, organic solvents have a lot more in common regarding health effects than they have differences.  Suggesting that acetone is innocuous whereas MEK is "serious", for example, is misleading.  All organic solvents are central nervous system depressants although the particular concentration at which they exert effects varies among them.   

 

Finally, although you may think everybody knows, every solvent you mentioned is flammable and, in correct concentrations, explosive.  Worth mentioning.  

 

Sorry to be so blunt, but the safety and health information in your post was, in my personal opinion, erroneous to the point of creating overt hazard to unsuspecting readers.  

[Anticept]

FredG:

 

The references I have read have stated SEVERE exposure causes the problems you describe (with a relatively high PPM exposure to begin to cause issues). What I meant by "transient" was "get into fresh air" and the symptoms will pass. Added that to clarify.

 

I had reviewed several sources briefly, which that severe symptoms are extremely rare due to the extreme concentrations and length of exposure required.

 

A couple that I had looked at:

 

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=3&tid=1

http://wcam.engr.wisc.edu/Public/Safety/MSDS/Acetone.pdf

 

I will take your suggestions and edit my post to stress that one should still control exposure to all of these solvents, and use them only in well ventilated areas.. People who are exposed to high concentrations will experience symptoms that are easy to identify and can get to fresh air quickly.

[FredG]

Corey, I wrote the chapter on the health effects of organic solvents in two consecutive editions of one of the most widely used textbooks of occupational and environmental medicine.  I have reviewed most of the English language biomedical literature on this topic and have been doing so for almost 30 years.  I have diagnosed and treated workers with acute and chronic health effects of occupational exposure to organic solvents.  Health effects of exposure to industrial hazards are my professional expertise with effects on the nervous system being a particular interest.  If I am unconvinced by your brief review, I am sure you will understand.

 

I commend you for reviewing several sources and modifying your post to emphasize the need to minimize both inhalation exposure and skin contact (these solvents are all absorbed though the skin as well as via inhalation).  You are correct that airborne solvent vapor concentration and exposure duration (among other factors) are determinants of the delivered dose. I do not agree that "severe symptoms are extremely rare" and I think that your making this statement can create a false sense of security among persons not well versed in proper handling of organic solvents.  Regarding your comments immediately above, I do not know what "normal circumstances" are and your "normal circumstances" may not be the same as someone else's.  Regarding the benefits of "fresh air", are you familiar with the human half life of the solvents you discuss in your post?  Are you comfortable estimating the duration of time during which a person who has "symptoms" from solvent inhalation shouldn't drive a car or climb a ladder?  What is the basis for your conclusion that the acute effects of solvent exposure "are not issues"?  

 

Overall, while I think your revised post is an improvement over the original, I still think that you have included a number of potentially misleading inaccuracies.  FWIW, I am very familiar with ATSDR publications and I have reviewed hundreds of MSDS.  The two links you provided to "further reading" don't change my opinions.  BTW, MSDS are notoriously inaccurate regarding characterization of health effects.  

 

This is the internet and you get to write anything you want.  Regardless, as a professional practicing in this specific area for decades, I continue to be very uncomfortable with the safety and health information you have provided.  i realize you are trying to help users of these substances, but, when it comes to potential health effects, I do not think you have succeeded.  

[Anticept]

Corey, I wrote the chapter on the health effects of organic solvents in two consecutive editions of one of the most widely used textbooks of occupational and environmental medicine.  I have reviewed most of the English language biomedical literature on this topic and have been doing so for almost 30 years.  I have diagnosed and treated workers with acute and chronic health effects of occupational exposure to organic solvents.  Health effects of exposure to industrial hazards are my professional expertise with effects on the nervous system being a particular interest.  If I am unconvinced by your brief review, I am sure you will understand.

 

I commend you for reviewing several sources and modifying your post to emphasize the need to minimize both inhalation exposure and skin contact (these solvents are all absorbed though the skin as well as via inhalation).  You are correct that airborne solvent vapor concentration and exposure duration (among other factors) are determinants of the delivered dose. I do not agree that "severe symptoms are extremely rare" and I think that your making this statement can create a false sense of security among persons not well versed in proper handling of organic solvents.  Regarding your comments immediately above, I do not know what "normal circumstances" are and your "normal circumstances" may not be the same as someone else's.  Regarding the benefits of "fresh air", are you familiar with the human half life of the solvents you discuss in your post?  Are you comfortable estimating the duration of time during which a person who has "symptoms" from solvent inhalation shouldn't drive a car or climb a ladder?  What is the basis for your conclusion that the acute effects of solvent exposure "are not issues"?  

 

Overall, while I think your revised post is an improvement over the original, I still think that you have included a number of potentially misleading inaccuracies.  FWIW, I am very familiar with ATSDR publications and I have reviewed hundreds of MSDS.  The two links you provided to "further reading" don't change my opinions.  BTW, MSDS are notoriously inaccurate regarding characterization of health effects.  

 

This is the internet and you get to write anything you want.  Regardless, as a professional practicing in this specific area for decades, I continue to be very uncomfortable with the safety and health information you have provided.  i realize you are trying to help users of these substances, but, when it comes to potential health effects, I do not think you have succeeded.  

 

You must have gotten to the post before I revised it. Basically, for a person who does this as a hobby, the exposure should be minimal (unless you have this stuff in your basement and are tossing around gallons of it!), hence the normal circumstances part. For me, however, who does this professionally and are often exposed to these solvents on a regular basis, I take more precautions. I would not consider my own use under normal circumstances.

 

Anyways, I edited the post some more. Please review. There is a certain point though where we end up writing a dictionary of disclaimers and that's really not what this is for, so that's why I'm sticking to short warnings.

 

There's much stronger stuff than what I posted. It sounded better in my head, but basically I am conveying that these are relatively safe and people shouldn't be afraid to use them. But I am hoping the "While these solvents are not dangerous unless grossly mishandled" is a good compromise, along with reinforcing warnings about using respirators and skin protection for the organic solvents.

 

I would ask though, that instead of throwing a laundry list of questions in a chastising manner, that you provide useful information to amend to the post, such as said half-lives of those solvents, or useful reading for curious readers. I'm happy to hear from someone who has superior knowledge on the subject, and appreciate your help, but I'd like to focus on constructive criticism, please.

[FredG]

Corey, I understand the problem of excessive declaimers and I am not advocating disclaimers to the point of absurdity.  

 

Regarding relative safety, sure, organic solvents are used by tens of millions of people around the world and most of those users do not experience any short- or long-term harm.  Some, however, under circumstances that they didn't really think were an issue (or didn't know to think were an issue), do have problems.  The fact that you have the sense to avoid those problems doesn't mean that other do.  Also, not every user of solvents is a fully able-bodied person with no underlying illness (e.g., heart disease, lung disease).  Some people are more susceptible to the adverse effects of solvents than others and that fact deserves mention.

 

If I were to write about the health effects of organic solvents for persons without special training on the subject, I would first acknowledge that all are potentially harmful to human health and that all such solvents must be handled with appropriate care or transient or permanent harm can result.  I would emphasize that all can enter the body through the lungs and the skin.  I would state that any sensations of dizziness, lightheadedness, headache, nausea or loss of coordination indicate excessive short-term dosage and require immediate removal to uncontaminated air. I would, as you did, emphasize that ventilation is the key to minimizing exposure and effects on health.  I would tell people to actually read the warnings on the solvent container and follow the precautions on the label.  I would tell people that a respirator rated for organic vapor may reduce the amount absorbed through the lungs and that such respirators must fit correctly and be maintained in order to provide continued benefit.  I would emphasize that persons with pre-existing heart and lung disease may be at greater risk than others who do not have these conditions.  Note, however, that even these statements are not necessarily complete and that telling people how to protect themselves from potentially harmful substances in brief statements on the internet is challenging not easily done.

 

Regarding your revised post, as I noted above, the changes you made are for the better.  My continuing concern is that your original (and revised) post suggests to me that these substances are not a big deal and the continued implication, for example, that acetone is essentially OK whereas MEK is serious stuff continues to be misleading.  

 

My goal is not to chastise.  Rather, in response to your reply to me (post #6), I wanted to show that the subject is a more complex than you acknowledged and more complex than even your revised post implied.

 

Regarding your request that I present useful information to revise the post, well, that isn't a project I volunteered for.  The fact that you chose to write about the health effects of organic solvents does not mean that I have an obligation to revise it so it conveys accurate and useful information on solvent safety. I wrote my first post when I read your original post because I was alarmed at the description of the safety and health effects of solvents and I provided explicit suggestions for revision.  I felt it would be irresponsible of me to not bring these issues to your attention, as the author of the original post.

 

Thanks.

[gbigs]

We used Prolong composite car and boat cleaner, the windshield with Plexus.  But to get the hard stuff off Iso Alcohol works perfectly fine.  It's also what Lone Mountain uses on the Flight Designs they maintain.

[207WF]

Plexus is also great for removing bugs from the wings and cowl.  I have taken to using it all over the plane.  WF

[Anticept]

Corey, I understand the problem of excessive declaimers and I am not advocating disclaimers to the point of absurdity.

 

Regarding relative safety, sure, organic solvents are used by tens of millions of people around the world and most of those users do not experience any short- or long-term harm. Some, however, under circumstances that they didn't really think were an issue (or didn't know to think were an issue), do have problems. The fact that you have the sense to avoid those problems doesn't mean that other do. Also, not every user of solvents is a fully able-bodied person with no underlying illness (e.g., heart disease, lung disease). Some people are more susceptible to the adverse effects of solvents than others and that fact deserves mention.

 

If I were to write about the health effects of organic solvents for persons without special training on the subject, I would first acknowledge that all are potentially harmful to human health and that all such solvents must be handled with appropriate care or transient or permanent harm can result. I would emphasize that all can enter the body through the lungs and the skin. I would state that any sensations of dizziness, lightheadedness, headache, nausea or loss of coordination indicate excessive short-term dosage and require immediate removal to uncontaminated air. I would, as you did, emphasize that ventilation is the key to minimizing exposure and effects on health. I would tell people to actually read the warnings on the solvent container and follow the precautions on the label. I would tell people that a respirator rated for organic vapor may reduce the amount absorbed through the lungs and that such respirators must fit correctly and be maintained in order to provide continued benefit. I would emphasize that persons with pre-existing heart and lung disease may be at greater risk than others who do not have these conditions. Note, however, that even these statements are not necessarily complete and that telling people how to protect themselves from potentially harmful substances in brief statements on the internet is challenging not easily done.

 

Regarding your revised post, as I noted above, the changes you made are for the better. My continuing concern is that your original (and revised) post suggests to me that these substances are not a big deal and the continued implication, for example, that acetone is essentially OK whereas MEK is serious stuff continues to be misleading.

 

My goal is not to chastise. Rather, in response to your reply to me (post #6), I wanted to show that the subject is a more complex than you acknowledged and more complex than even your revised post implied.

 

Regarding your request that I present useful information to revise the post, well, that isn't a project I volunteered for. The fact that you chose to write about the health effects of organic solvents does not mean that I have an obligation to revise it so it conveys accurate and useful information on solvent safety. I wrote my first post when I read your original post because I was alarmed at the description of the safety and health effects of solvents and I provided explicit suggestions for revision. I felt it would be irresponsible of me to not bring these issues to your attention, as the author of the original post.

 

Thanks.

This time you did provide quite a bit of useful info. I have amended the warning to instruct people to read the label and MSDS.

 

I did not mean for acetone to seem harmless. However it is my understanding that MEK can cause organ damage in smaller concentrations than acetone even begins to have an effect. If I am incorrect, please chime in .

 

They both suggest the use of respirators, skin protection, and ventilation in my revision though. Still, it is my personal experience that MEK will cause me to become lightheaded very quickly, whereas with acetone, the same circumstances don't affect me.

 

Anyways, this was more of a point to say "look, of all the things on this list, MEK is a particularly powerful inhalant. Get the PPE on!"

 

Thanks fredg!

[ralarcon]

A combination of , Wet rag, on occasion, Simple Green and / or Meguire's wax takes care of 99 % of all cleaning needs for me.

 

Cheers

[FastEddieB]

We just "debugged" the Sky Arrow.

 

Doused with Turtle Wax Ice Detailer, waited a few minutes, then scrubbed with a Dobie pad and wiped off excess.

 

Followed by Turtle Wax Carnauba Spray Wax.

 

Easy-Peasy!

[sandpiper]

My CT is 9 years old and has never been washed.

 

A couple of times a year I clean the belly with Oil Eater followed immediately with Composiclean Super Spray Wax. Bugs are removed by using the same Super Spray Wax. Bugs are best removed sooner rather than later.

 

The plane is dusted frequently with a California Duster just like people use at car shows. Occasionally I go over the entire plane with the Super Spray Wax. Stubborn stains usually come off using Compisiclean Haze Glaze

 

The plexiglass is cleaned with Lemon Pledge. Don't use other forms of Pledge as build up will occur. If the windshield is really dirty and grity and no water is available I use waterless car wash, dwginternational.com. I have used this method for decades. Worked great on my planes when I lived in Alaska. They were never hangared which is the norm there. Never had windshield damage. Anchorage is especially dirty in winter. A lot of crap in the air from studded tires.

 

I know Composiclean is expensive but it lasts me a long time.

 

The above works for me. Your mileage may vary.

[gbigs]

We cleaned the little Flight Design after each flight, even short pattern work.  It's fun to do and just seems like paying back the little beast for keeping everyone safe.

[Ed Cesnalis]

We cleaned the little Flight Design after each flight, even short pattern work.  It's fun to do and just seems like paying back the little beast for keeping everyone safe.

 

 

That's the way to do it, not the way I do it.  I just maneuver and avoid hitting any bugs in the first place. 

[gbigs]

That's the way to do it, not the way I do it.  I just maneuver and avoid hitting any bugs in the first place. 

 

Yea, your way is better but we have never mastered that technique.  In fact it seems like the more bugs we try to avoid the more go after the plane.

[Roger Lee]

We in AZ never had bug issues until California chased them all over here due to smog and forest fires. 

Now I have to go out and wipe them off.

[FastEddieB]

 

The plexiglass is cleaned with Lemon Pledge.

I have used Pledge on plexiglas for many decades and it gets the job done well.

 

A while back someone suggested I try the above-mentioned Turtle Wax Ice Detailer for plexiglas.

 

Simply, it works better. Try it - you'll like it!

[Anticept]

Bug blaster is really good at removing caked on buga.

[Ed Cesnalis]

Yea, your way is better but we have never mastered that technique.  In fact it seems like the more bugs we try to avoid the more go after the plane.

 

That's cause you made them mad.

[gbigs]

That's cause you made them mad.

 

Pissed off insects?  Prolly flying in the wrong airspaces.

[sandpiper]

I have used Pledge on plexiglas for many decades and it gets the job done well.

 

A while back someone suggested I try the above-mentioned Turtle Wax Ice Detailer for plexiglas.

 

Simply, it works better. Try it - you'll like it!

 

I have some of that. Will try it.

[ralarcon]

This ,also, works well on Plexiglass, takes superficial scratches right off of Plexiglas and carbon composite.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Meguiars-G12310-PlastX-Plastic-Cleaner/dp/B0000AY3SR

 

Cheers