Going to E-LSA

[Buckaroo]

I'm thinking to take my 2007 CTSW that is being delivered to me Saturday, as a Experimental class so I can work on the plane.

 

Can any members give me the steps involved with the FAA to register as such? Also how much time does this take to get into that class?

 

Thanks!

[FredG]

I converted to E-LSA a few years ago (2006 CTsw).  I worked with a DAR.  You will need to draft (or the DAR will draft) a new set of Operating Limitations for the E-LSA (and they will have to be signed by the DAR or an FAA official) and there is an FAA form to be completed (FAA 8130-6 a couple of years ago, not sure if it has been superseded).

 

Some placards will need to be changed, as well.   

[FlyingMonkey]

When I asked a local DAR that signs off these conversions, here's the response he sent me:

 

Thanks very much for the inquiry!  The process for doing the conversion is fairly simple; it involves some upfront paperwork coordination between you and me and an inspection of your airplane by me at the Airport.  The cost would be $500.  Here are the steps below:

 

1.                   At the time of my certification visit, you would need to submit a completed FAA Form 8130-6 Application for Airworthiness form and a “Program Letter”-- I can help you complete those ahead of time. 
 

2.                   You would need to email me photocopies of the following documents for my review ahead of time.

a.                   Current registration certificate

b.                  SLSA airworthiness certificate

c.                   SLSA operating limitations document

d.                  Current empty weight and balance

e.                  Original FAA Form 8130-15 from when the aircraft was certificated as an SLSA.

f.                    Manufacturer’s ground test, flight test, and final inspection records—these may be logbook entries or separate paper forms, depending on how the manufacturer does it.

g.                   A photo of your fireproof aircraft dataplate, showing at least the aircraft manufacturer, model, and serial number (which should match your registration certificate character-for-character

h.                  Logbook entries showing that the aircraft had an annual condition inspection within the last twelve months and that it included a test of the Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT).

i.                     Evidence that all manufacturer’s Safety Alerts have been complied with

j.                    Evidence that any modifications to the aircraft were approved in writing by the manufacturer
 

3.                   I would need to verify that you have a manufacturer’s Pilot Operating Handbook (POH) for your specific aircraft model and serial number and a manufacturer’s Flight Training Supplement (which may be included in the POH or may be a separate document).  If you have these as computer files, you could email them to me.  If not, I would look at them during the certification visit. 
 

4.                   When I arrive for the certification, you would surrender your existing SLSA airworthiness certificate and operating limitations document to me.  You would need to have the engine cowling and some of the access covers removed so I can do my inspection.  In addition to a general inspection, I would be looking for the following.

a.                   Current transponder/encoder test

b.                  All equipment installed per POH

c.                   All placards installed per POH
 

5.                   There are a couple of placard changes that would need to be made.

a.                   You’d need to remove the placard(s) on the outside of the airplane that say “LIGHT SPORT.”

b.                  You’d need to install new placard(s) that says “EXPERIMENTAL.”  The letters must be 2” high and the placard(s) must be visible from any entrance.  Oftentimes it is possible to use only one such placard on the aft baggage compartment bulkhead, just so long as it is easily visible from both doors.

c.                   You’d need to remove the existing passenger warning placard and replace it with another one stating that the aircraft is an ELSA (for example, Aircraft Spruce P/N 09-01966).
 

6.                   My inspection would probably take 2-3 hours.  Once it was done, I would hand you a new ELSA airworthiness certificate and operating limitations document and we would be finished.

[Buckaroo]

Thanks for that great listing going Elsa! It's not as simple as I thought!

[SportFlyer1]

Yep, then you will be your own mechanic, airplane designer/manufacturer and test pilot.

[Buckaroo]

????????????????????

[FlyingMonkey]

Thanks for that great listing going Elsa! It's not as simple as I thought!

 

Honestly, it's not that bad.  The FAA form 8130-6 seems to be the hardest part, I have contacted FD USA and requested that.  Showing that all safety alerts are complied with is easy...SAs are immediate safety issues and are very rare; I don't know if any have actually ever been issued on CTs.  Service bulletins are highly recommended but not required.  And you have to have paperwork (MRAs) for any modifications already performed.  

 

The other requirements are basically already met if your airplane is legal to fly:  a current annual condition inspection, current ELT batteries, current W&B, etc. 

[Buckaroo]

Thanks Flying Monkey!

[gbigs]

Thanks Flying Monkey!

 

Remember, you didn't buy an E-LSA.  You bought an SLSA.  Ask yourself, would you be buying this plane if it was E-LSA already?   Roger does it for a living and he recently sold his SW and he never took it to E-LSA.  Buying a used car an amateur tinkered on is not the same as buying air airplane an amateur tinkers on....it's like being your own lawyer or doctor.

[FlyingMonkey]

Roger does it for a living and he recently sold his SW and he never took it to E-LSA.

Roger is a LSRM...there is no advantage to him going ELSA, since he can already perform any work on the airplane. This is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

[gbigs]

Roger is a good example.  He has the training and expertise and experience that would make converting his SW into an E-LSA less risky than an amateur doing it.  Despite claimed 'flexibility' he chose to keep his personal plane an SLSA and sell in that status.

 

IMHO the real reason any amateur doing their own mechanical work is money.  But the obvious downside is most who are dabbling in this way are also taking a substantial risk in the air.

[bitten192]

Not exactly. An LSRM can work on the aircraft using approved procedures (Maintenance manual, A/C Operating manual, AC. 41.13.1b etc.). The LSRM can't change the design of the aircraft without a Letter of Authorization (LOA) from the manufacturer. Like changing the prop type or avionics that are not specified in the aircraft technical specifications document would require an LOA. Some LSA manufacturers are easier than others to get LOAs from.  Also if the manufacturer goes out of business you might have to convert to ELSA.

[gbigs]

Not exactly. An LSRM can work on the aircraft using approved procedures (Maintenance manual, A/C Operating manual, AC. 41.13.1b etc.). The LSRM can't change the design of the aircraft without a Letter of Authorization (LOA) from the manufacturer. Like changing the prop type or avionics that are not specified in the aircraft technical specifications document would require an LOA. Some LSA manufacturers are easier than others to get LOAs from.  Also if the manufacturer goes out of business you might have to convert to ELSA.

 

Yes. And that was going to be the fate of CT owners had Aerojones not stepped into the picture and taken over production and parts supply.  CT SLSA owners are back in the game.

[opticsguy]

An in-flight adjustable prop would be nice, though.

[FlyingMonkey]

An in-flight adjustable prop would be nice, though.

 

No kidding!

[FlyingMonkey]

Note for those who are interested in E-LSA:

 

The hardest piece of paper to obtain for the switch seems to be the FAA 8130-15 form.  This form is generated by the manufacturer (FD Germany in my case) and must be submitted to the FAA when the airworthiness certificate is issued.  Unlike the 8130-6 form that the local DAR issues, this form is not labeled at the top with the form number.  Instead the form number is in tiny text at the bottom of the form, and the top of the form is simply labeled "Statement of Compliance".

 

The DAR will want to see both of these forms to issue an E-LSA airworthiness certificate, because he has to verify that the aircraft conforms to all FAA and manufacturer S-LSA standards.  I first tried FD USA for these forms, they said "you will need to get them from the local dealer that sold the airplane, since they hire the local DAR to issue the AW certificate.  So I called Tom Guttman at Airtime Aviation in Tulsa.  He said they don't keep any of that paperwork, and send all of it to the FAA.  Grr...okay.  

 

It turns out that for $10 you can request a data CD from the FAA that has all of the paperwork related to your airplane, by N-number.  I did that and it has copies of both the 8130-6, the 8130-15, and a bunch of other forms like the original factory W&B and flight test data.  Well worth $10 to have all this stuff handy for yourself and for the next owner if you ever sell.

[Andy]

How do you make that request?  Online?

[FlyingMonkey]

How do you make that request?  Online?

 

Right here:

 

http://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/nd/

[WmInce]

Right here:

 http://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/nd/

Thanks Andy!

[Doug G.]

Did you need to have them certified for E-LSA purposes?

[FlyingMonkey]

Did you need to have them certified for E-LSA purposes?

 

My DAR says that because the documents are coming from the FAA archives he'll accept them as delivered, if that's what you mean.  

[Doug G.]

I think that answered it. I noticed on the FAA order site there was an option to have them certified. It states that it is normally for law suits. I guess having the FAA certify that their records are ok for them to use doesn't make sense. ????

[FlyingMonkey]

I think that answered it. I noticed on the FAA order site there was an option to have them certified. It states that it is normally for law suits. I guess having the FAA certify that their records are ok for them to use doesn't make sense.

 

I assume that option is the equivalent of having them notarized.