FlyingMonkey Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I had the DAR inspection yesterday, and my airplane is now officially an Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (E-LSA). It was a pretty painless experience, the hardest part is gathering all the paperwork for the DAR to review. I needed to show a current condition inspection had been performed, the ELT and transponder maintenance were current, a current W&B showing all installed equipment, a POH, flight training supplement, and FAA limitations, factory flight test, ground test, and final acceptance documents, factory authorization (usually MRA/LOA) for any modifications, the original factory FAA 8130-15 statement of compliance form, and a few other documents. All that took me a couple of weeks to locate and compile. My new W&B (which I needed to do anyway) showed that between the Matco wheel, autopilot install, and the Dynon D-100 (which was not on the factory sheet as it was installed at Airtime Aviation), I gained about ten pounds, and the empty CG moved slightly forward (which is good, my empty CG was close to the aft limit - not that the airplane flies empty!) -- current useful load is now 575lb. The inspection was pretty easy, I was only missing the "NO INTENTIONAL SPINS" placard, and I printed one and stuck it on in front of the DAR, so he was happy with that. Everything else checked out fine, and the DAR complimented me on the attention to detail in having everything ready and all the documentation correct. He poured through my logbook pretty thoroughly, and asked me a few questions, but was satisfied with all my answers. I'm happy he let me put the "EXPERIMENTAL" placard on the front of the spar box -- it's visible from both entrances as required, but not emblazoned on the outside of the airplane. I also had to change the passenger warning placard to indicate experimental status. Since he has done a lot of these conversions, I asked him about changes to resale value. He doesn't think it really affects it. Only flights schools and commercial users get turned off by it, he said. Most users like the idea of doing their own maintenance if inclined, if not they can follow factory guidance. I guess someday I will find out one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbigs Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Having just gone through the experience of selling a factory supported SLSA CTLSi I can say emphatically that you will have a harder time selling your plane as an experimental versus SLSA. And you will get less money for it if you do find another homebuilder/do-it-yourself guy. The ultimate buyer of my plane (and like all other look-e-lous) demanded complete log books and the name(s) of the shops that worked on the plane. Two things sealed the deal and allowed us to sell the plane for just a little less than we paid for it....1. it's maintenance and damage history 2. the 'transition training' and ferry flight provided by the guy that brokered the plane (his commission was offset by the 10 hours of training he provided the new owner). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Having just gone through the experience of selling a factory supported SLSA CTLSi I can say emphatically that you will have a harder time selling your plane as an experimental versus SLSA. And you will get less money for it if you do find another homebuilder/do-it-yourself guy. The ultimate buyer of my plane (and like all other look-e-lous) demanded complete log books and the name(s) of the shops that worked on the plane. Two things sealed the deal and allowed us to sell the plane for just a little less than we paid for it....1. it's maintenance and damage history 2. the 'transition training' and ferry flight provided by the guy that brokered the plane (his commission was offset by the 10 hours of training he provided the new owner). The selling of your airplane and the selling of a CTSW that has moved to ELSA is not a fair comparison. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Congratulations Andy! A bureacratic burden has been lifted. Now you have the freedom to do what you want with your airplane. It's almost like acquiring a whole different airplane, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Congratulations Andy! A bureacratic burden has been lifted. Now you have the freedom to do what you want with your airplane. It's almost like acquiring a whole different airplane, eh? It really is, the possibilities are almost endless! As for sales and value of the airplane, I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I bought the airplane knowing it's a depreciating asset, and with no real expectation of future value. Even if the airplane lose value, there is a good chance I will save as much in maintenance as I lose in sale price (probably just in annuals alone!). Saving money now beats saving money later, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runtoeat Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 A big step Andy. Glad it worked out smoothly for you. I've got a similar CTSW and have the same thoughts as you regarding future valuation. Right now, maintenance under SLSA is working good but I would not hesitate to go experimental if this gets to be a hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I am considering this move but am still studying the pros and cons. My insurance is with Falcon at $1030 annually for $65000. Any opinions of Experimental and insurance costs? I plan on calling them this week to get a quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Any opinions of Experimental and insurance costs? I plan on calling them this week to get a quote. My broker said no change, unless you start making significant modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Andy, I believe you will be very pleased with experimental registration. Lots of freedom to maintain and upgrade. Enjoy. fg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Andy, I believe you will be very pleased with experimental registration. Lots of freedom to maintain and upgrade. Enjoy. fg Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityKnight Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Congrats Andy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frfly172 Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Congrats, any major changes coming to the aircraft.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted January 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Congrats, any major changes coming to the aircraft.? Probably not anytime soon. I am going to replace the motor mount isolators that are kind of shot, replace the coolant hoses (on the hose change before I bought the airplane the wrong hoses were used...they work okay but are not ideal), and I'm going to get Roger to rebuild the carbs. The first major change will be an avionics update, I'm thinking a Garmin GTX345 for ADS-B and Aera 660 GPS to replace the 496. That might not be for another year or two though. I'm hesitant to make any major changes to anything affecting structure or performance, for two reasons: 1) The airplane is working and performing, really, really well and I don't want to do anything to lessen reliability or performance. 2) My insurance broker mentioned that major changes like that would likely trigger a premium change. That said, I continue to eyeball the Zipper Big Bore Kits for a possible future upgrade as my engine gets past mid-time, if I like what I see from them in terms of reliability. 115hp and a flatter prop pitch should stay LSA legal but climb like a homesick angel, and it would be essentially doing a top overhaul at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Congrats, any major changes coming to the aircraft.? Probably not anytime soon. Recommend you investigate the Silent Hektik VR, Andy. There are some interesting posts on it over at the RV-12 site. They seem to be more accessible now. That withstanding, it appears the failure rate of the Ducatti is a lot more often on the RV-12 platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravityKnight Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 That said, I continue to eyeball the Zipper Big Bore Kits for a possible future upgrade as my engine gets past mid-time, if I like what I see from them in terms of reliability. 115hp and a flatter prop pitch should stay LSA legal but climb like a homesick angel, and it would be essentially doing a top overhaul at the same time. I know there are quite a few out there with some good hours on them. (like a lot more than mine - I have ~170 or so). And a fella on the BCP forum with a rans s7 just crossed 2k hours on his zipper (big bore installed at 700 hours) and he doesnt go easy on it. There was just a topic on the rans forum asking about issues with these, and there really isn't much negative out there which is a good sign. Most of the issues I've heard about from some guys in the know, are dealing with the 1622 super big bore that requires case/head machining and a different cam. Time will tell of course. I think the increased compression could potentially cause increased wear on the gearbox, I know mine sometimes starts pretty harshly when cold outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralarcon Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I had the DAR inspection yesterday, and my airplane is now officially an Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (E-LSA). It was a pretty painless experience, the hardest part is gathering all the paperwork for the DAR to review. I needed to show a current condition inspection had been performed, the ELT and transponder maintenance were current, a current W&B showing all installed equipment, a POH, flight training supplement, and FAA limitations, factory flight test, ground test, and final acceptance documents, factory authorization (usually MRA/LOA) for any modifications, the original factory FAA 8130-15 statement of compliance form, and a few other documents. All that took me a couple of weeks to locate and compile. My new W&B (which I needed to do anyway) showed that between the Matco wheel, autopilot install, and the Dynon D-100 (which was not on the factory sheet as it was installed at Airtime Aviation), I gained about ten pounds, and the empty CG moved slightly forward (which is good, my empty CG was close to the aft limit - not that the airplane flies empty!) -- current useful load is now 575lb. The inspection was pretty easy, I was only missing the "NO INTENTIONAL SPINS" placard, and I printed one and stuck it on in front of the DAR, so he was happy with that. Everything else checked out fine, and the DAR complimented me on the attention to detail in having everything ready and all the documentation correct. He poured through my logbook pretty thoroughly, and asked me a few questions, but was satisfied with all my answers. I'm happy he let me put the "EXPERIMENTAL" placard on the front of the spar box -- it's visible from both entrances as required, but not emblazoned on the outside of the airplane. I also had to change the passenger warning placard to indicate experimental status. Since he has done a lot of these conversions, I asked him about changes to resale value. He doesn't think it really affects it. Only flights schools and commercial users get turned off by it, he said. Most users like the idea of doing their own maintenance if inclined, if not they can follow factory guidance. I guess someday I will find out one way or another. If AeroJones and FD don't get their "stuff" together, I will also, go experimental. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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