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Today I tried to get my 2nd flight in and dead battery!


Buckaroo

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FWIW, I also have a CTEK and also a NOCO G1100 "Wicked Smart" charger.  Both work great. I  keep the CTEK on my CTSW 100% of the time and have never had any problems.  When I go to fly, the charger shows green and my battery is 100% charged.  My neighbor bought a new Corvette and it had a CTEK included in the maintenance package and directly wired to his AGM battery so it could be plugged in whenever the car would sit for long periods of time. 2 winters ago I boiled out a battery on my truck with my NOCO.  I called the company and talked to the owner.  He asked if I had the battery connected to the car's system or was it on the bench.  I told him it was on the truck's system.  He said when there is a slight battery drain - which there was due to the EPROM module and anti-theft constantly being "on" in my truck - the NOCO will read this as a condition where charging is needed and it will go into the charging cycle.  This apparently caused the overcharging and loss of electrolyte.  My CTSW has no battery drain when idle.  The CT's with glass panels draw a small but constant battery drain while sitting. Sounds like you verify this Tip.  You're in a cold climate and OK leaving your type of charger on 100% with glass.  Perhaps it's best to monitor the charger as Andy states if one has glass?  I think I'll try calling CTEK and NOCO again and ask their tech about leaving "smart" chargers on when there's a small drain.

 

Update:  I talked to NOCO tech support.  They said if the battery is the flooded type (removable caps to add water), the fluid levels should be checked and maintained to insure the levels do not drop below the plates.  This is probably what happened to my truck battery since I didn't maintain the levels for a couple months.  The tech support said for AGM batteries which have a closed loop system that retains electrolyte (our Odyssey battery), the charger can be left on indefinitely.  They said the charger should have a capacity to provide 5X the amp drain rate.   Example  If the drain from the system is 200mA (.2amp), the charger should be able to provide at least a 1 amp charge rate.  I am not a EE and so this is offered as non-technical information. Battery charging is always a topic actively discussed among airplane, boat, RV and car owners and I would welcome comments.

 

Thanks for doing all that leg work, Dick!  It sounds like it's safe to keep a CTEK on the battery.  If I lived in a very cold climate I'd probably do it, based on the information you gave.

 

Another thought...if you don't have an automatic preheater like the Tanis with a mobile phone connection to turn it on/off, then you are in the position I am.  When it's cold enough here to require pre-heat (I do it below 45°F or so), I use my hillbilly "heat gun and hair dryer" setup.  If I was concerned about the battery, I could throw the CTEK on at the same time.  I usually pre-heat for 45min to 90min depending on temps.  Charging that long might make the difference when starting in the cold.

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IMHO.

 

Gotcha.  A related question for the EEs on here would be...if you do have a constant slight drain, is it better to keep an Odyssey on a charger, or to only charge when the charge shows low?

 

Being quite honest here, I have never once used my CTEK charger.  I had to replace a failed battery a year after I got the airplane (it sat for three years before the sale with only occasional run time), and since then I've never had an issue.  That was about 2.5 years ago.  It's possible that as the battery gets older, spending time on the charger might help milk some more life out of it.

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Hi Andy.  I have steam gages but am now running the SkyGuard ADS-B and iFly 740 full time, along with the radio, xponder and Garmin GPS. I find that my CTEK charger will indicate a low charge state (yellow) when it is plugged in after landing if I have just run slow speeds around the patch for an hour or so combined with some touch-and-goes where the engine runs at low speeds and some long taxi is needed to get back to the hangar.  As you're aware, our Rotax charging system is anemic.  If I fly a longer, higher speed cross country flight and then land and plug in my CTEK, this shows "green" indicating my battery is fully charged.  I would guess your CT is using more current due to your Dynon sucking up some electrons.  You may find that your CETK might show "yellow" after you land, especially if you've poked around and not run at higher engine speeds.  The other pa roblem with the Rotax charging circuit is that it doesn't charge at the 14.2 volts required by a AGM battery.  Chanik advised adding a Schott rectifier to increase the charging voltage.  I bought this but have not installed it.  I think this may help the charging system to keep up with our Odyssey battery under more demanding use but as stated, I'm not a wire wizzard and just go with advice from those who know.

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Gbigs, The battery charger delivered with the CTLSi is different than what is needed for the older airplanes.

 

The Dynons should not have a current drain if the keep alive wire has been disconnected per Dynon's instructions.

 

I have left the charger I posted on for periods of a couple weeks. The battery that seemed to be getting weak always seemed to have an increase in capacity after removal. What I mean by that is after removal and a flight, the battery voltage a week later is always higher than what it was a week after flying the airplane before using the charger.

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Gbigs, The battery charger delivered with the CTLSi is different than what is needed for the older airplanes.

 

The Dynons should not have a current drain if the keep alive wire has been disconnected per Dynon's instructions.

 

I have left the charger I posted on for periods of a couple weeks. The battery that seemed to be getting weak always seemed to have an increase in capacity after removal. What I mean by that is after removal and a flight, the battery voltage a week later is always higher than what it was a week after flying the airplane before using the charger.

 

Okay.  My experience is similar to Morden's.  I never needed the tender.   But then my battery was factory supplied and I never left the avionics on when the engine was not running.  As you know I had the full compliment of avionics FD offered: Dynon Skyview duals, Garmin 796, ADS-B etc.

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So in my 50 degree hanger should I run the charger at all times in storage or once in awhile? These A&P's I have airport hanger coffee with each morning tell me I'm frying my battery. My 2007 Corvette, motorcycles, boat etc all do well on the battery tender. My Vette sits 6 months each year.

Are they also the ones that think leaving batteries on a concrete floor drains them?

 

Maybe you should ask them why trucker batteries don't fry despite being powered by alternators all the time.

 

You fry a lead acid* battery if you pump too many amps through it at a time, or float the charge too high. The battery will naturally stop charging on its own.

 

*lithium based batteries need charging circuits to manage them. They CAN overcharge, but nearly all box batteries have that circuitry.

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My log book listed the Odyssey 310 change out 5 years ago. So after my no start the other day I go home and order another $160 Odyssey with 2nd day air. Then yesterday I go out to pull the battery and what date is that one----9/16. Now I'm throwing money away I think.

I'll check the 9/16 out again and probably keep it as a second.

With that date, you should have a warranty claim. I would call Odyssy and inquire about that.

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I have steam gages but am now running the SkyGuard ADS-B and iFly 740 full time, along with the radio, xponder and Garmin GPS. I find that my CTEK charger will indicate a low charge state (yellow) when it is plugged in after landing if I have just run slow speeds around the patch for an hour or so combined with some touch-and-goes where the engine runs at low speeds and some long taxi is needed to get back to the hangar. As you're aware, our Rotax charging system is anemic. If I fly a longer, higher speed cross country flight and then land and plug in my CTEK, this shows "green" indicating my battery is fully charged. I would guess your CT is using more current due to your Dynon sucking up some electrons. You may find that your CETK might show "yellow" after you land, especially if you've poked around and not run at higher engine speeds. The other problem with the Rotax charging circuit is that it doesn't charge at the 14.2 volts required by a AGM battery. Chanik advised adding a Schott rectifier to increase the charging voltage.

 

The battery charger delivered with the CTLSi is different than what is needed for the older airplanes.

The Dynons should not have a current drain if the keep alive wire has been disconnected per Dynon's instructions.

I have left the charger I posted on for periods of a couple weeks. The battery that seemed to be getting weak always seemed to have an increase in capacity after removal. What I mean by that is after removal and a flight, the battery voltage a week later is always higher than what it was a week after flying the airplane before using the charger.

 

Are they also the ones that think leaving batteries on a concrete floor drains them?

Maybe you should ask them why trucker batteries don't fry despite being powered by alternators all the time.

You fry a lead acid* battery if you pump too many amps through it at a time, or float the charge too high. The battery will naturally stop charging on its own.

*lithium based batteries need charging circuits to manage them. They CAN overcharge, but nearly all box batteries have that circuitry.

Good information on this subject. Additionally, I might add, with the CTEK charger, the battery ends up with a better charged state if the charger connections are clipped directly on the battery terminal posts. If the charger clips are attached to the exhaust pipe and the bottom static wick (conventional location), the steady state voltage with master switch "on" is not quite as high.

After observing that, if I do use the charger in my hangar, I now remove the top cowl and connect the charger clips at the battery posts directly. It provides a much better charge. Feedback welcomed.

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This subject just brought another question in mind. My battery has been removed and I'm awaiting the new 310. Are my Dynon's or any other memory device in jeopardy with no battery for several days?

 

You will need to update your Dynon's anyway...but I am pretty sure they use EPROMS to store the config data and a small disk to store maps, terrain etc. 

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Thanks guys! My prior Odyssey 310 was maintained by the Odyssey Battery OMAX-6A-1B Ultimizer Charger 6 amp 12 volt DC vdc 120 volt 12vdc

 

The date on that battery turns out to be April 9 2016. Today I took the battery to Napa for testing and it failed on a load charger at 41 cranking amps. The new one's going in tomorrow.

 

I'm gathering the old one's receipt from the prior owners and will try to get a little credit. ????

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One thing I found about this:  I had no problems in flight, but once landed the flaps would not retract.  It turns out at idle RPM the stator was not producing enough power to run everything without drawing from the battery, but was enough at normal flight RPM.  I turned off the landing light, and the flaps came right up.  I guess my little 11.5W LED landing light (which I run all the time) tipped the balance and didn't leave enough power left for the flaps at idle RPM. 

FM GA,

 

I need to get a landing light ( LED ); you say "my little 11.5w LED". I is this an easy addon, i.e. fasten to nosewheel pant,

or does it attach to cowl ? Where can I get one ?

Thanks,

RH

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FM GA,

 

I need to get a landing light ( LED ); you say "my little 11.5w LED". I is this an easy addon, i.e. fasten to nosewheel pant,

or does it attach to cowl ? Where can I get one ?

Thanks,

RH

The LED is a drop in replacement for the 100W halogen bulb supplied with the CTSW's and some CTLS's. It does require a MRA from FD. You can check with FDUSA.

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In my 912uls-powered SLSAs I have been using a Lithium-Iron-Phosphate battery (Sorei) since september 2008. I use a Battery-Tender Jr when i expect to be earthbound for a while. I once left the tender off for 2.5 months and it started after 2 blades. I've also inadvertently left the master on for 2 weeks and LiFePo4 was throw-way dead. BTW no vent tube. No hazardous-material restrictions in shipping or disposal.

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Other than being an interesting addition to our battery story Howardnmn's Lithium-Iron-Phosphate battery does us no good, because his airplane is not a CT. To my knowledge Flight Design has not approved a Lithium-Iron-Phosphate battery for the Flight Design airplanes delivered with the Powersafe SBS 8 batteries. The only approved replacement is the Odyssey PC310.

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