sandpiper Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 What is the story about the new $22 spark plugs and the $40 boots? Is this a mandatory switch? The boots would be a one time $320 switch but at $22 per plug I sure won't be throwing away plugs every 100 hours! They look just like the NGK's we have been using which were about $3.00 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug G. Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Yeah, I saw that too. The wires and boots are not mandatory, and I have not seen anything about Royal required plugs, although it would not surprise me to have them say that since the NGKs say they are not for aviation use. Remnds me of drug costs in the US vs. Canada. $176 vs. $24 for what seem to be the same plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 I think I will stick with the old NGKs and boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 The plug switch is not mandatory. NGK told Rotax they did not want the liability any longer since they really didn't buy that many plugs and boots. NGK for decades has had the airplane with a slash through it on their plug boxes for a do not use these in airplanes, but everybody did anyway and people will continue. Now NGK can say it wasn't our fault. I believe the new plugs are Bosch and branded for Rotax private label. This is not a mandatory change, but if you get a new engine it will have the new plugs. If you buy plugs from a Rotax distributor they may (unknown at this time) only sell you the Rotax plug. There are 50K Rotax engines out there using NGK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, Roger Lee said: There are 50K Rotax engines out there using NGK. So I'm guessing it will still be a while before we can say this is a safe practice, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHeal Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 It is my understanding that the new-style spark plugs ($22 each) require a new-style boot connector ($40 each) be installed on each spark plug wire. The new-style plugs are not compatible with the old-style boot connectors. Does anyone know if the old-style spark plugs will still be manufactured by NGK to be used on non-aircraft products (e.g., snowmobiles, motorcycles, etc.)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, DHeal said: Does anyone know if the old-style spark plugs will still be manufactured by NGK to be used on non-aircraft products (e.g., snowmobiles, motorcycles, etc.)? I believe that plug is NGK's top seller and is used in all kinds of vehicles. I don't think they are going away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 I agree with Andy. They aren't going away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 It will be interesting to see if this leads to a mandatory service bulletin of some type. Playing the "shifting blame game", if NGK says "don't use in airplanes" and engine manufacturer's ignore it, they become "willfully negligent" should an accident be tied back to spark plugs (rare as it may be). I bet we haven't heard the last on this quite yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmInce Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 3 hours ago, Adam said: It will be interesting to see if this leads to a mandatory service bulletin of some type. Playing the "shifting blame game", if NGK says "don't use in airplanes" and engine manufacturer's ignore it, they become "willfully negligent" should an accident be tied back to spark plugs (rare as it may be). I bet we haven't heard the last on this quite yet. That's a very good point, but the same thing could be said for all the engine peripheries. History has demonstrated that Rotax has refrained from imposing extraordinary service bulletins as such. In place of that, they "recommend" for or against certain items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 This will not be a mandatory item to swap plugs and boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 Hi all, Does anyone know whether the new boot (p/n 265249) can be used with the old style NGK spark plug (safe backward compatibility of the boot), or whether one must use the new Rotax spark plugs with the new boot? Thank you for any feedback. Matt CTLS, 912 ULS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 7 hours ago, Matt said: Hi all, Does anyone know whether the new boot (p/n 265249) can be used with the old style NGK spark plug (safe backward compatibility of the boot), or whether one must use the new Rotax spark plugs with the new boot? Thank you for any feedback. Matt CTLS, 912 ULS As a follow up to this, is there any technical problem with, say on a new engine, pulling out the new boots and replacing the boots with the old NGK-style and going back to the NGK plugs? I'm guessing Rotax would want to void your warranty for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 You can switch to NGK's. You don't need to change the cap. You cab buy a NGK cap on Amazon for $12. You can buy NGK plugs at your local auto parts store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 Rotax says to not mix and match between the new and old sparkplugs and boots. That being said I had a fellow call and ask me about an ignition problem, and he had been running the old style plugs with the new boots for a while. Not sure if this led to his issues or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingMonkey Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 So...from a warranty perspective, Rotax would be okay with you buying a brand new engine, and converting it to the NGK plugs, as long as you changed out the wires and boots too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Baker Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 Here is the SI on the subject. si-912-027.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 Because Rotax is firm on what they will help with under warranty I would wait until that period ends. We have talked about this in schools. If you leave you Rotax (Bosch) plugs in until 200 hrs. then you're about done with warranty anyway. I have several 912iS engines using NGK's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 Always remember that the Magnusson Moss act exists if you find yourself in a scuffle. It will still be a pain in the butt, but under the act, Rotax has to prove that the plugs were at fault if the engine is damaged; not you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 11, 2022 Report Share Posted May 11, 2022 8 hours ago, Roger Lee said: You can switch to NGK's. You don't need to change the cap. You cab buy a NGK cap on Amazon for $12. You can buy NGK plugs at your local auto parts store. Thank you Roger. This answers my question I think, whether I can use the NGK plugs and the new caps together, as long as all plugs are the same and all boots are the same. I understand that the old boots do not work wit the new plugs, but the old plugs work with the new boots. Great to have gotten your and the other comments. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 But Rotax is in Europe and doesn't have to follow all our warranty rules. For instance if you use any other type of oil filter on a Rotax under warranty then they will void the warranty and you will absolutely not be helped. That has happened with filters and other aftermarket parts. Even in the RV trailer world. I have two friends that wanted to coat their rubber roof with white elastomeric coating which I have done for 30 years, but were told if they did all warranty was voided. Even out of warranty when Rotax will step in to help on parts they will refuse if they find aftermarket filters or parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 I am using these boots … I presume these are “old style”… https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ngk-8051?seid=srese2&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Brands+|+N&utm_term=4581596235364976&utm_content=GSAPI+5ba26b5257e40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anticept Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 Old Spark plugs are DCPR8E, style 4339 Old Plug boots are VDO5FMH, 5k ohm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Lee Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 12 hours ago, Warmi said: I am using these boots … I presume these are “old style”… https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ngk-8051?seid=srese2&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Brands+|+N&utm_term=4581596235364976&utm_content=GSAPI+5ba26b5257e40 These aren't the old style. These are: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002Y3406G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 The only reason Rotax moved away from the NGK they have been using for decades was that NGK didn't want the liability anymore. They had been sued. So Rotax got with Bosch and so long as Rotax took full liability then they now make the new plug which you see has Rotax name on it and not Bosch. There is nothing wrong with NGK plugs and even Rotax says it is not mandated that you switch. Plus Rotax now uses that one plug in multiple engines vs different plugs for different engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 But aircraft spruce is selling these as Rotax caps ? https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/ngkcaps.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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