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Breeze clamps?


Buckaroo

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My friend just flew in from Texas in his Rans S-19 he built. He's a Rotax guru who I'm trying to talk into doing my hose job for a cool $3000 while on his vacation. We'll see how this ends up!?

Anyway he says Breeze clamps are the way to go on all the h2o lines and all the fittings for that matter. 

What do you all think?

 

 

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The big incompatibility on the hoses is between the rubber fuel lines and the barbed fittings.  Many will say the problem comes with the clamping but the truth is that rubber fuel lines and barbed fittings are not compatible and the barbs can cause rubber debris when the hose is installed that will pollute the fuel system.

Tight fitting hose forced over the barbs will shave off a layer of hose on the inside that can end up in your carbs. Minimize the damage by not using hose that is a tight fit and has to be forced over the barbs and inspect your float bowls more than once after the change looking for rubber debris.

Not sure if a clamp change does anything but a fitting change from barbed fittings would produce a nice safety improvement.

 

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They should have used beaded fittings. I think Flight Design is the first aircraft that I've seen use barbed fittings... everything else is either beaded for flexible, or flared rigid with a B-nut (AN818) and T sleeve (AN819).

B1054228372.jpg

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Don't look for trouble where there isn't any. Stick with the spring clamps where they are now, Oetiker or fuel injection clamps on the fuel and you can reuse the fuel injection clamps on the oil lines.

Why try and reinvent the wheel and open up a can of worms. If there becomes a problem you have to answer for it with the FAA.

You said he knows Rotax then he must be an A&P or an LSRM-A? If he went to Rotax school he should know better than change the clamps on the coolant hose and he should know why the spring clamps are used.

 

p.s.

The breeze hose clamps are nothing, but serrated garden hose clamps. When I see them I toss them in the garbage. They have no business on an aircraft.  You can buy all you want at Ace Hardware for a garden hose. They can cut into the outer hose, they can overcam and come lose. 

I would question someone's expertise if they wanted to use these on all the different types of hoses.

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Roger can you take time to photo a pic of the appropriate clamps for fuel, water and oil so I can understand what they should be? This clamp controversy should be easy and straight forward. My head is starting to burst over something easy that's turned into nerd conversation! 

My so called Rotax guru is a nice guy but I prefer to evaluate this on my own. 

Tomorrow we are flying side by side in my CTSW and his Rans S-19. Should be fun! 

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Not all hose clamps are equal, roger. It's like saying you can just go to the hardware store and buy perfectly good bolts and use on a plane. Definitely NOT true, not by a looooong shot.

That said, some of the breeze clamps are made to milspec (not all, only a small subset). Not saying this automatically makes them good for use on rotax, but it does make them *consistent* and you know exactly what they are made of. That's worth a lot more what you get from the chinesium you find in the corner store. There's a few videos on youtube where people talk about how a higher quality hose clamp works a lot better than the hardware store stuff they tried.

Breeze do make some belleville style hose clamps that are rather intriguing.

The single biggest problem with worm drive clamps is that they draw the hose in one direction. Funny thing is, you can actually cause a leak by making them too tight. A second clamp going the opposite direction and tightening them together can help with this.

Spring clamps are used in many areas on the cooling system near the engine, because they tend to apply almost uniform clamping force around the circumference of the hose. If I recall, rotax tried many different clamps and found that they work the best.

I love fuel injector clamps, but it would be an immense pain stocking all the sizes you would need.

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I just did a hose change.  I used the spring clamps where Rotax uses them (you have to make sure they are up against the fitting bead), the fuel injection clamps where they were on the oil lines and Oetikers on all fuel hoses and some of the oil hoses.  Pretty much what Roger recommends.  I have had zero leaks, now at about ten hours of flight time post-change.  

Just another data point.

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I pretty much do the same as Roger said, except I use a Oetiker on the oil line as well. I do this so I can extend the fire sleeve all the way to the end of the hose for a nice clean installation. If you reuse the fuel injection clamps on the oil lines you need to be careful when doing the Band-it clamp. In my first round of hose changes I saw an oil line where the Band-it clamp had been tightened to much and it was off the fitting. It reduced the hose diameter significantly.

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If you are not careful you can easily over tighten a Band-It clamp. This clamp is an industry standard for fire sleeve.

Oetiker and fuel injection clamps are considered band clamps. Nothing wrong with Oetiker on an oil hose. It is a band clamp.

Serrated worm drive clamps have no use on our application. Leave them for your garden hose. As Corey said they draw in one direction. They many times cut into the outer layer of the hose and unlike a true band clamp don't always give a good seal and equal pressure in a 360 circle.

It's just as easy to do it the right way and a way that has been proven over the decades and thousands of engines.

Like I tell people: If you're not sure how to do it put back like you found it from the factory.

If you use those Breeze serrated worm drive clamps and have a major issue you may have some explaining and justification to do to the authorities. FD will say we don't approve of those clamps, Rotax will say we don't approve of those clamps, the industry standard isn't those clamps, so who put those on? Why go there. 

Why? Put it back like you found it.

There is a reason the MFG usually pick certain items.

 

Spring clamps on the coolant hose and fittings are there to expand and contract with the heating and cooling cycles. Worm drive can't do that.

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Those clamps are at least one step better than the standard serrated worm drive with the internal band, but they are still use a serrated worm drive type screw which can still over cam. If he is bent on that type of clamp just use the fuel injection clamp. It's still better. Plus you still need to use the spring clamps on the coolant hose. 

You never did say if this mechanic has a license? Is your plane an ELSA?

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Roger, my point on the Band-it clamps is that they need to be over something solid when they are tightened down. If you use the fuel injection clamps on the oil lines it is real easy for the Band-it to be over just hose when it is tightened. With the Oetiker clamp I am able to place the Band-it on the fitting side of the Oetiker with no chance of it squeezing off the fitting.

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