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5 yr. hose and rubber parts replacement


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#1 corvette33

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 09:57 PM

I understand there is a mandatory replacement of hoses and rubber parts on the Rotax at 5 years? As a new owner can you bring me up to speed. Also what is the deal on the "soft start" module? Is it necessary? I understand both Rotax and Bully Hawk make one. Which would you reccomend and why? Thanks

#2 Jacques

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 11:25 PM

here is the info

http://ctflier.com/i...r-rubber-parts/


Rotax doesn't make a Soft Start.. They came out with the ''Advanced Start'' incorporated in the new engines. If you want to add on..you should [must ] go with the Soft Start from Bully Hawk or the Rotax dealers
Jacques
80hp 912
2005 SW

#3 Roger Lee

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 11:40 PM

Soft Start is a separate Mfg and makes the Soft Start after market add on. This is the less expensive way to go.
Rotax incorporates their soft start system within the ignition modules. So to use the Rotax system you would have to buy both Rotax ignition modules which is good, but expensive. To answer your question, they are not mandatory, but absolutely make a difference.

The 5 year rubber parts replacement is mandatory for all 2006 CTSW's or any SLSA with a Rotax 912 this year and if you have a 2005 CTSW and it hasn't been done then you are out of airworthy and need to get it done.
Roger Lee
Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
Tucson, AZ.
LSRM-A Specializing in LSA Maintenance
Authorized Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint Rated
520-574-1080 Home Try home first
520-349-7056 Cell

#4 Runtoeat

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 12:03 PM

Hi Corvette33, I'm not sure if you have a new CT or purchased a used one? Your CT should have a library of all Rotax and Flight Design service bulletins that pertain to your aircraft. If your CT was purchased used, this list could be extensive, especially in regards to Rotax bulletins. You may already have this but it is best to have a library for all Flight Design and Rotax service bulletins pertaining to your specific aircraft. FD and Rotax has summaries and detailed documents of all service bulletins on their websites. As for this hose replacement, there is a great deal of information on this forum and the specific Rotax service bulletin for this is found here. Get out your wallet when it's time for you to do the hose replacement!
Dick Harrison
CTSW N9922Z

#5 corvette33

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 01:58 PM

Thanks for the replies. I recently purchased a 2007 CTSW, but have not yet taken delivery from the dealer. If this will need the hose replacement done next year I guess I might as well have it done before taking delivery. Does anyone know what an approximate price might be to have this completed?
Also, I understand that the Bully Hawk soft start is available. Will I need a LOA to have it installed on My CT? From the videos I have seen on this product it would seem to be beneficial. Anyone have any experience with this product?

#6 Roger Lee

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 02:04 PM

Hi Corvette,

The Soft Start for a Rotax or the Rotax soft start style ignition modules are beneficial. It does make a difference. You would need an LOA from FD. Price may vary some between mechanics on the rubber replacement. Plan on somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500-$3200 depending on the mechanic, rates and if your CT has the thermostats. It's only once every 5 years because you can't pull over to the curb if any line breaks and loosing an oil line would be death for your $19K engine.
Roger Lee
Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
Tucson, AZ.
LSRM-A Specializing in LSA Maintenance
Authorized Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint Rated
520-574-1080 Home Try home first
520-349-7056 Cell

#7 Roger Lee

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 02:24 AM

Oetiker clamp supply


http://chadstoolbox.com/oetiker.aspx
Roger Lee
Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
Tucson, AZ.
LSRM-A Specializing in LSA Maintenance
Authorized Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint Rated
520-574-1080 Home Try home first
520-349-7056 Cell

#8 FastEddieB

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 11:46 AM

I had violent kick-back issues with my ROTAX-powered Sky Arrow.

The Soft Start module definitely helped - a very worthwhile addition IMHO.

Some description and photos here:

http://ctflier.com/i...ch__1#entry2189
Fast Eddie B. (Ed Benson) • Mineral Bluff, GA, USA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA

#9 Jim

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 08:02 PM

I had violent kick-back issues with my ROTAX-powered Sky Arrow.

The Soft Start module definitely helped - a very worthwhile addition IMHO.

Some description and photos here:

http://ctflier.com/i...ch__1#entry2189


Any idea why some planes have it and some don't? I probably have 500 starts on my CT and don't remember it ever being a problem.

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"
--Epictetus


#10 Roger Lee

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 12:30 AM

Hi Jim,

So far as I have been able to ascertain it is a function of the cold with the amount of charge in the battery. The lower the battery charge the worse it is and of course throw in a cold morning when things are a little stiffer and then you get the kick back. When I make sure my battery is at a complete and full charge even a cold morning is a good start. The ones with the kick back don't usually have the same problem in warm or hot weather.
Roger Lee
Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
Tucson, AZ.
LSRM-A Specializing in LSA Maintenance
Authorized Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint Rated
520-574-1080 Home Try home first
520-349-7056 Cell

#11 Jim

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 01:47 AM

I guess that would explain it. I've probably never started it below about 30F and if the plane sits longer than 2 weeks I put the charger on the battery.

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"
--Epictetus


#12 FastEddieB

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 01:56 AM

Any idea why some planes have it and some don't? I probably have 500 starts on my CT and don't remember it ever being a problem.


Not sure.

The Bullyhawk site gives an extensive list of things to look for.

A fully charged battery certainly helps. My Sky Arrow has a pretty long run from the battery to the starter (battery in the nose, high-mounted engine), and that may cause some voltage drop.

It also seems like once you've had it kick back so hard so many times, something starts to loosen up in the starter sprague clutch (I think), and that makes the problem even worse, in a vicious cycle.

On a very cold day (less that 30ºF) it still takes about 3 tries to get running, still trying to find the perfect combination of "choke" and throttle position. But its worlds less violent than it was before, and hot starts are as "soft" as one could ever wish for.
Fast Eddie B. (Ed Benson) • Mineral Bluff, GA, USA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA

#13 Jacques

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 03:32 AM

yep..the cold makes the difference...even with the lower compression 80 hp and a full charged battery.

pre-warming the engine is the way to go.
Jacques
80hp 912
2005 SW

#14 Jim

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 05:25 AM

I'd put money on the length of the battery cables. On a CT they are about 8".

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"
--Epictetus


#15 Runtoeat

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 12:53 PM

Some thoughts on things I've found while starting my CTSW. The starter on all of our CT's has a sprage clutch. This allows overun of the engine flywheel gear to the starter gear when the engine starts, unlike automotive systems. This means that one can keep the starter engaged even after the engine "catches" and starts. I hold my ignition key on "start" until I am sure that the engine is fully started and running. This means holding on "start" for just one or more seconds longer after the engine catches. I have found that the throttle cannot be opened, even a small amount, or the engine will not start. As for my choke, I have found the "sweet spots" (two positions) where the engine will start in "partial" cold and where it will start in "full" cold. My choke "overchokes" in the "full on" position if I start the engine after the plane has been hangared and is partially cold. I must use "full on" choke if I fly to a location where the plane sits exposed to the cold for a period of time. I have put paint marks for the two positions for the choke. To find the sweet spot for partial cold, increase and decrease the choke immediately after starting and listen to the engine. I don't seem to have any kickbacks or issues during starting using this procedure.

Note: I edited this reply after realizing that the subject for this thread is "5 year rubber hose replacement". Perhaps comments pertaining to "engine starting" might be moved to a more appropriate" thread?
Dick Harrison
CTSW N9922Z

#16 Jim

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 02:33 PM

Great advice about the sprage clutch. I suspected it had one based on the sounds it makes, but it's good to know for sure that it's safe to keep spinning the starter for a second or two if it's sluggish kicking over.

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"
--Epictetus


#17 westcoastoz

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 09:05 AM

My 912 is due next month for the 5 year rubber hose & parts replacement. Does anyone know if any of the U.S. Rotax suppliers (CPS maybe?)have made up a kit with all the required bits and pieces to do this job? It would sure make it easier than searching locally for all the different size hoses needed to complete the task.
I expect it will be cheaper to source the parts from the USA rather than here in Australia thanks to the current strength of the $AUD and I might as well buy an Oetiker kit while I am at it.
Any tips & information from someone who has already done the job would also be appreciated so I can pass it on to my mechanic.

Thanks,

Dave

#18 Roger Lee

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 02:44 PM

Hi Dave,

California Power Systems (CPS) has kits already setup in their system. I gave them a kit list and talking to them the other day they have sold several. All you need to do is ask for the CT rubber hose replacement kit and your ready to go. You will need to tell them if you have the stainless steel carb feed lines or the red rubber carb feed lines. These are the ones that come off right on top at the cross over tube between the carbs and a line goes into each carb. This is the fuel line that feeds each carb. All most all 2006 CT's will have the stainless lines, but I know of 1-2 guys that put in the red rubber fuel lines to the carbs and now at the 5 year rubber replacement they need to be changed. That is another $338. I think I'll leave mine stainless. Then the kit comes with the rubber diaphragms for the carbs. If you want to just go ahead and rebuild the carbs then delete the diaphragms and order the 912ULS carb rebuild kit. It is $249. The CEET duct tubing which is the 3" air intake tubing on each side for each carb and the 1 3/4" CEET tubing under the engine that comes off the muffler and goes to the cabin heat needs replacement. You can get that from Aircraft Spruce on line. Here is the info: 2 ft. of the 1 3/4" CEET duct part # 05-30507 at $7.25 per ft. and the 3" CEET duct tube get 3' part #05-30512 at $8.75 per ft. (http://www.aircrafts...ppages/ceet.php).
You will need an assortment of Oetiker one ear stainless band clamps and a set of pliers. I would get the pliers that can pinch from the front and side #1099. Here is a site to get you started.
http://www.kegkits.c...ory_Code=OCLAMP
You can buy the kit here for $54 and side pliers for $25. I would also, while you are at it, pick up 25 extra of each of these next sizes because you will need them for different hoses and the firesleeve and you can't just run down to the store to pick some extra clamps up.
13.3-706R = 10.8-13.3, 14.5-706R = 12.0-14, 17.0-706R = 14.5-17, 18.5-706R = 15.3-18.5
21.0-706R = 17.8-21.0, 25.6-706R = 22.4-25.6, 33.1-706R = 29.9-33.1.


While your doing this don't forget the rubber engine isolators on each engine corner. These are the Fiat silent blocks. There are 16 of these and are $177 (total) from FD USA ( or here: http://www.fiat500ri...&product=AA1007)

Attached is the original CPS parts list. I have made 1-2 minor changes. Part #181409 is now 2' not 3', P211 is now 12' not 10', #181411 is now 2' not 3'. CPS already has these changes so leave what they have on the list alone. This was just my original list. If you don't want the carb diaphragms #861-115 then this is where you would ask to drop these and get the carb rebuild. Make sure you specify it is for the 912ULS and if you have an 912UL (80 hp) then tell them that as the rebuild kits are different.


I hope this helps some.

Attached Files


Roger Lee
Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
Tucson, AZ.
LSRM-A Specializing in LSA Maintenance
Authorized Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint Rated
520-574-1080 Home Try home first
520-349-7056 Cell

#19 westcoastoz

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:50 PM

Roger....thank you so much for taking the time to provide that information. You have made the process for me and I expect many others on this forum so much easier.

Regards,

Dave

#20 Runtoeat

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 04:25 PM

Hi Roger. I'm getting ready to order that parts I need to change the rubber on my 2006 CTSW. Is the kit that CPS now sells pretty much complete after allowing a few weeks for you and CPS to figure out all that is needed? I don't see any reference to the fuel hoses that we are supposed to change which run from the wings down thru the pillars to the cowl. Are these fuel lines extra and need to be ordered separate from the CPS kit? Also, are all of those oetiker clamps you show really needed, in addition to the standard clamp kit you show? Thanks.
Dick Harrison
CTSW N9922Z




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